Is Online Game Changing?

[Rhody]

I just got back on match after a year. I have to say online game is changing as more women flock to the dating sites. This may be more specific to me because I'm older and looking at a different age group (about 30-38), but I see women who used to have normal to low self esteem getting full of themselves. For example, the percentage of women who consider themselves "athletic and toned" is skyrocketing! These are not women you see on the cover of Shape magazine. They're average at best. But they all think they're athletic because they walk on a treadmill and toned because they look ok in good lighting and spandex pants.

Also, because women have more choice online, they are changing their standards. I started to notice the "looking-for" age window going down. Women used to start their window around their own age and go up. Now, most women in my age group set it so the lower age is farther from their age than the higher age. They're like 10 down and three up. So if the woman is 35, her range is 25-38. These are average or below-average looking women, many of whom I wouldn't consider at 43.

Men are training them to think this way. These women get 100 emails a day, even the average looking ones, so they have to narrow their parameters. The more desperate the average guys get, the more selective the average women have to get.

Are they getting an inflated sense of value? Or are they becoming a more valuable resource?

On the other hand, is this coming from that same insecurity they always had? Do they think they have to list themselves as being younger and more fit than they truly are to get noticed?

[Tribulus1000]

Yeah its challenging.
I did it for the better part of a year. I can tell you this...and if these guys were still on here, they would fess up to it...
The guys who do well at this aspect of Game or in Online Dating are the ones who spend hours and hours doing it.
Scoundel used to go to my friend's house and log in to plentyoffish; Rockstar had it on his iphone and was on much of the time when he worked.
Another friend of mine who is not a PUA guy, Jerry I., worked at it all the time.

The thing these guys have in common is they worked at it. In much the same way one would work on one's game at the bar.

You look for patterns yourself. Maybe go watch David D'Angelo's Meeting Women Online series, try some of Dave M's stuff.

I would really like to hear what Bull Run has on this subject. He sounds like he has done quite well in online game.

Me personally, I used technology. There is a program out there that you can use to mass email girls online. Its called WebDom Bot.
I am not affiliated with it in anyway. I just used it for a time.

Another resource that is very much worth getting is the ebook by Vida (Virtual Dating Assistants). I have no affiliation there either. It was just a good book.
Their ebook just kind of gives you the nuts and bolts of the whole thing. It describes how its like sales with lead generation and lead conversion (closing).

Finally one thing I implemented successfully is the use of good old fashioned Decision Trees.
I'm going to make a post on that. I used decision trees in closing.

Hope that helps.

[Bull Run]

Online game is changing but I personally believe that it's changing for the better. I think more and more women are flocking to the web and it's becoming more and more socially acceptable. Rhody, the dynamic you're witnessing is most likely very real and legit. But, I think it's a side effect of the ever growing popularity of the web.

The thing is that online game STARTS with, and in many cases, ends with Match.com. That is the primary site that you should be focusing on. OKCupid is legit as well (PS Match just bought them for $50mm and additional future performance payouts). But, Match is far and away the best place to put your face on the world wide web. And, the website is growing, and growing fast. In the 3rd quarter 2011, the service grew subscribers by 12% YOY. Online dating is growing ever more sophisticated by the company's playing in the space because there's lots and lots of money to be maid (InterActiveCorp, the parent company that owns Match makes about $130mm a quarter in revenue from online dating and it's growing at a robust clip). This is driving a lot of study in the space as you can see from OkCupid's interesting blogs and Match's just released online behavioral study (it's only the second one they've actually performed):

http://blog.match.com/singles-in-america/

Some estimates put the number of singles in America at or around 100mm people. It’s the most common relationship status on Facebook, especially amongst the younger kiddos. And, people are always looking for an easier, more convenient solution to their issues. The Internet fulfills that promise and people are flocking here. The most common fear that people have with online dating is whether or not the person they decide to meet in person will look like their pictures. But, that’s really not a huge, huge deal all the time. One of the gems in the study that Match put out is that about 33% of men admit to falling for a woman that they weren’t initially attracted to, while 43% of women admitted to the same thing. So, even in the online world, you have the chance to talk your face away. But, I digress.

Has online game changed? Are women seemingly more picking and entitled? For those of you that know me, you are aware that I think far too many women are rocking a sense of entitlement. That is a trend that we, as individuals, cannot stop. It’s here to stay. But, that doesn’t mean that all women are like that. More than that, you, as a man, simply have to be stronger than the ‘normal’ man. There really isn’t any option.

Rhody, what you’re witnessing is actually something that supports my theme about Internet dating. It’s a real force. It’s a respected and valid place for people to meet each other. It’s socially accepted. And, because of this you’re simply going to have more and more of these overly entitled women joining the service.

It’s no different than a bar. Women in bars are crazy fickle. Women, in general, are crazy fickle. They have these bullshit lists in their head about what a man needs to have or not have. In real life, you have a better opportunity to simply bulldoze your way through her lists with your game, charm, humor, etc. Online, you don’t always get that opportunity. In fact, you may never even show up in her searches.

There are things you can do to combat this but in the end, online game is still very much a mystery to people. I haven’t really seen any good material on how to run it and run it effectively and consistently. But, there are some nuggets of factual information that can help you build the best profile you possibly can. Consider this, 29% of people are attracted to others with a similar education. 33% of people are attracted to people with a successful career. Men are becoming increasingly romantic and sensitive, more men say that they’ve been in love and believe in love at first sight than women. Men are 1/3rd more likely to appreciate and accept PDA. Men are more likely to make a commitment either without being in love or without feeling sexually attracted to a partner. Men want to move in with a woman faster. Men are more concerned with their weight than their height. Yeah, sounds like a lot of men are becoming straight up women. Gross.

Contrast that information with what people are attracted to:
• 73% of people want someone physically attractive
• 83% of people want someone with a sense of humor
• 74% of people want someone confident and secure

So, when you’re online, you need to incorporate and project the three bits of information above in your profile and emails. Notice the MOST important trait: sense of humor. USE IT and use it liberally. Most men write shit that they THINK women want to hear. So, they focus on what they do and have done instead of who they are and what kind of life they lead. Education, job, residence (owned or rented), material items (unless it’s a motorcycle, musical instrument, or something else cool), and boring, normal hobbies (i.e. watching sports) need to be cast aside and downplayed in your profile. But, funny and interesting things in your profile need to be embraced and accentuated. Try to use a list of traits, funny one liners mixed in with factual information about yourself.

Example, I’m Dutch so in the ethnicity box I put the following:

I'm Dutch, we're a proud people who have brought the world great discoveries such as CD's, bacteria, The rings of Saturn, the telescope, and Australia...you're welcome.

I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of that line and have a lot of other very similar ones in my profile.
Fact is that we need to have a presentation where we go over online game because there’s so much more to it. There’s more to online game than there is to in real life game. It’s easier and more convenient but there are way more steps, pitfalls, and since it’s easier to generate leads it’s also easier to simply lose them.

Further, understand that online game truly is feast or famine. You’re going to have weeks where you’re able to generate a ton of leads. I’ve had weeks where I would find myself with a lot of phone numbers and casual dates set up for the future. I’ve had days where I would get 3-4 emails/winks/interests a day. And other days where I literally had zero profile views. The thing I’ve noticed is that the websites are generally pretty friendly to active users. If you’re online emailing, viewing, and updating your profile then you tend to be moved to the top of searches and are presented to women by the service. More active I am in a day, the more activity that my profile draws.

Online game has different players now in that they have the more hypergamous, status jockeying women that have zero intention of actually meeting a guy at a bar but still wants to be fucked proper by some man of value and worth. Problem is that most men online sound like complete pussies. Don’t do that. Furthermore, take what a girl says she wants with a grain of salt. It’s very likely that what she says is nothing more than what she thinks she should say, not what she really wants. Call it a shit test before you even leave the house.

Tribulous is right when he says you have to work online quite a bit. When I’m working it, I spend a lot of time grinding through profiles and crafting emails and what not. It goes in phases for me. Sometimes, I just can’t read any more of that mindless dribble that women post up on their profiles. I swear some of the shit I’ve read makes me lose all hope in the female species. Then again, you meet cool women from time to time that give you a little bit of hope and faith…that one’s for you kiddo (inside joke)

[Rhody]

I have seen the same trends you have, BR. Typically, I can go for a week getting winks and emails and then go a week with nothing. I should note I have rarely dated a woman who emailed me first. Maybe it's my age, but the women who email me first are usually fat older women. But I digress.

Having just started this again, I have been giving it more thought. As a man of value (I am an attractive man who makes a very good salary and is in great shape), I am so underwhelmed by the women on these sites. Every once in a while, I will find a woman who has a great personality and an attractive appearance, especially on match. But for the most part, the profiles serve no purpose other than to allow me to place the woman in a category. In the age group I'm looking at, I see seven different profile types. I plan to write another thread with more information about about each one, but here they are:

1. Eye Candy - she has a lot of pictures where she's dressed up in clubs, at Mavs games, etc., with a lot of pretty people around her. Her profile has very little description of herself.
2. The Traveler - she has a lot of pictures in other countries. She talks about travel and wants a man who has a passport.
3. The Adventurer - she has a lot of pictures outside (biking, rock climbing, skydiving, etc.). She talks about being active. She says she doesn't want a couch potato.
4. The Burn Victim - she has a short initial profile and then a huge list of disclaimers. She goes on and on about what she doesn't want (a hookup, married men, men who post pictures without their shirts on, needy men, etc.)
5. The Bar Flooze - she has a lot of pictures in bars (drinking, playing pool, showing off her tattoos, hugging a scrubby guy because she has no female friends, showing off her Cowboys jersey, sitting with her legs spread). She lives with roommates, works nights, and uses incorrect spelling and grammar.
6. The Mom - she might have pictures with her kids. She talks about her kids, how they come first, how she spends so much time taking them to all their activities, etc. She always says she deserves some "me time."
7. The Career - she has few pictures, mostly pictures taken at a work function. That's when she is dressed nice and in her comfort zone. She talks about how she loves her job. She can take care of herself and doesn't need a man. She says she's looking for someone to explore the city with, try new restaurants, or go dancing.

All these women think they are expressing their uniqueness by posting their shitty profiles. All they are really doing is allowing me to put them into one of those seven categories. Most of them are not truly unique. What can I do with that? Well, I can write seven different form emails, which I plan to do as an experiment. But what does that do for me? I can't really ask them to contribute anything until they respond to that first email. That's when I really set myself apart. That's why I believe the profile and the first email are the most important parts of online dating. I estimate 70% of the game is won in the first email. The problem with online dating is the lack of control of the outcome, because it is so difficult to get a predictable response. It's so easy to get deleted because she didn't like your main picture or just filtered you out because of age, height, etc.

This is nature, though. Men do the attracting, and women do the choosing. Online dating is the equivalent to animal mating rituals. All the women have to do is show up, and the men broadcast their genetic traits hoping to get chosen. Like you said, BR, it's all about being stronger than the competition. You have to broadcast better genetic traits (i.e., attractiveness, sense of humor, confidence).

Men can be selective, but it's a backwards process. You have to fish with a net, get as many fish into your boat as you can, and then decide which ones to throw back.

[Bull Run]

Your categories are pretty spot on man.

Men can be selective, but it's a backwards process. You have to fish with a net, get as many fish into your boat as you can, and then decide which ones to throw back.

Love that quote. That's pretty much online game in a nutshell.

[Tribulus1000]

Rhody, that list is hilarious. Nice post.