FR: Pawning, Kino, and texting

[OpenCheese]

I have been putting in some work lately, but I will only talk about two specific experiences that I have specific questions about.

Last saturday I went out to an event during the day that left me rather tired that night, but I decided to go out to some close by bars anyway. However, my state was probably best described as subdued. I sometimes like to start up the night just by talking to anyone, male or female, who is close by to sort of get into a social mood. So I do exactly this and start talking to this guy who comes up to order a drink, which paid off later that night because I was able to join the group he was part of at an adjacent bar without it being awkward. The group was HB8, 3HB7 and maybe 5 guys. However, I descreetly observed the girls (I hadn't tried to talk to them yet) and felt that the moment was not yet ripe. They just seemed really prepared to give the cold sholder. So I proceeded to pawn off the guys. I waited until one of the girls joined a conversation I was already having before making any attempt to talk to them, and I think this was a golden move on my part because it made interactions with them all much more natural later. Over the course of the night I just had normal conversation, there is nothing too flashy I can remember saying. At one point NHB4 friend showed up briefly and turned out to be the groping type. I just had to roll with it, but it is possible that it made something click with the other girls. Decarlo claims that the whole group is sort of on the same kino ladder. And I did engage in a lot of kino after that. If I talked to a girl, then kino was involved too. Progressively their attraction went up and up, until somehow HB8, and 2 HB7 were all around me. I told them about my job, which most people find impressive, then HB8 and aHB7 insisted on getting my number. HB8 called me right there. Then on the way out HB7a who got my number come up and gave me like a ten second lusty hug.

So thats fine. It is at this point we get to my sticking point. After making some attempts to get a day2, I find the my success rate has been pretty lousy. Including with these girls. One of the issues is that I think they were drunk when the above went down, and perhaps regretted it the next day. What is weird though, is it turned out the HB8 didn't actually use her own phone. She used the phone of the second HB7, so when I texted HB8 using HB8's name, I was unkowingly texting HB7b. This I felt ended up being awkward and I don't think anything is going to materialize with any of these girls.

I want to briefly also describe a party I went to on memorial day. There was an HB7 that I decided to open. It went great everything went right and I had her number in 5 minutes. However this was a big party with lots of girls and I spent time talking to a lot of them. I sent a few texts her way to schedule something, and nothing.

So anyway, my sticking point now is getting day2s in a consistant way. I think a big part of the issue is my texting. As such I have reading the advice of Chase Amante. Here is an example http://www.girlschase.com/content/how-text-girl

I have come to suspect that there are two common rules that are more nuanced and don't really fit the commonly stated rule. The first is waiting several days to text. To me it always seem like a girl that I have really interested in person always ends up cool by the time a few days go by. I think this guy above has the right idea with his icebreaker text. Basically a short rapport building text a few hours after getting the number. He also says not to dumbly wait three days, but to base your wait time on percieved interest. A really interested girl should be contacted the next day, for example. So anyway, I am at the point of digesting this stuff and will put it into practice to test out later.

The other suspect rule is that girls are supposed to get more interested when they see you flirting with other girls. After being in the field for a while I feel this is more nuanced. I think there are certain situations where it has been hurting me, including with the girl at the party described above. I have a vague suspician that it has to do with the level of interest she has in you. A girl who is very interested may put up defensive attitude toward you if she sees you talking to another girl after you have successfully wooed her. This is just a vague guess, I would appreciate some input on this, or some recommended reading.

Questions:
I did not specifically initiate the kino from NHB4 from the first group, but I think it may have helped open up the other girls. Is it a good idea to pretend like your interested in the ugly girl briefly?
I am confused about HB8 using her friends phone without indicating as much. What do you make of that?
What is your opinion of the texting advice at that link, and Chase Amanti?
Can anyone spell out when it is good and when it is bad to flirt with other girls in front of the target?

[ninjamatt]

the texting program the guy is teaching is real solid. I don't see any problems with what bit I read.

I did not specifically initiate the kino from NHB4 from the first group, but I think it may have helped open up the other girls. Is it a good idea to pretend like your interested in the ugly girl briefly?

There is no right or wrong answer to this. Hotter girls can perceive it a few ways. A girl can see it and think you are in to that type of girl, or you are in to their friend, or their friend never gets attention and she finally got some and there's no way they are gonna take it away, or you just sleep with ugly girls b/c you are a sex addict.

Another way it can be perceived is though you are a fun, confident guy, obviously not in to someone like that but you are still letting her have some fun too and you aren't discriminating ugly girls. Women are empathetic creatures who tend to feel sorry for people like that so it can add a lot of value to you. I wasn't there and I don't know what happened but those are 2 common perceptions they can have. I don't know a lot of pua terminology I just been in the game as natural so I'm not sure exactly what your idea of Kino is or what you did. If you were touching her like you liked, her, that might be a different story.

I wouldn't think too much of one girl using another girls phone. Maybe she left hers in the car or didn't want your number associated with her phone. Maybe one said "you get his number and use my phone" that's not even relevant to anything.

There's also not right or wrong answer to your last question. It's very tricky. To me, any quality woman should be ok with a guy talking with another girl. I've had dates where they encouraged it b/c they were in to women too. Depending on the level of where the relationship is, it's healthy unless you are fucking, or you know your about to fuck and you know that's gonna mess it up. A lot of women won't tolerate it when they committed emotionally to sex, or close to it. As far as courting different women at a party or bar, You just don't want to be approaching a bunch of different girls in the same place if one is watching who you are courting. You don't want to come off as a player trying to find someone to bang. But there is a real fine line there between talking to one, and walking away and having your mind set on that one too much, and not talking to any others when you are in the initially stages of trying to get a laid or day 2. There's also a real fine line between her social status level, where she thinks her's is, your social status level, and where you think your's is and vice versa.


ETA; one more thing I will add about your last question. If you are white, and you are trying to show a white girl(s) you are in to more than just her, aka talking to other girls at a party or bar, you don't ever want to be seen talking to a black girl.

[OpenCheese]

I am kind of curious about the last part. I probably wouldn't have even considered that being an issue (until real world experience hit me in the face), but now that you bring it up it actually seems pretty believable. I have seen some of these stats on interracial relationships etc and there is not an even breakdown. Off the top of my head I think the most common and longest lasting is white male with asian female, and the least common is asian male with black female. I assume it is because these white girls view themselves as have higher SMV compared to the black girl?

[ninjamatt]

I'm sure that's part of it. I'm not sure what SMV means. But I've had a lot of experience with it. Probably 50% of the women I've been with wanted to know if I've ever been with a black girl. I lost one real good relationship b/c I had a black roommate who I wouldn't make leave. It wasn't my intention of having a black roommate. I was remodeling my house and needed money, and no whites would take it b/c it looked like a fucking war zone.

I've never really known the exact reason white women feel that way. I know most of them will tell you that they would never be with a man who's been with another man so that's probably some of the mind set. My thought is, black women have reputation for fucking anything. They have reputation for having several kids with different daddies. They have a reputation as being trouble makers, not getting a long well with others. White women see them as a lower breed of society. I don't think there's any secret that black women love chasing white men and making themselves readily available to them b/c it's regarded as a few steps up the social status ladder most of them time. Most of the places I bar hop or club, there's about a 60;40 ratio of whites to blacks, sometimes closer to 50/50. When I get hit on by a black girl, I always blow them off but most of them won't go immediately. Sometimes I get one I work with or have worked with in the past who wants to talk. No sooner do I blow them off, I'm getting teased by some white girl about it.

[OpenCheese]

Probably 50% of the women I've been with wanted to know if I've ever been with a black girl. I lost one real good relationship b/c I had a black roommate who I wouldn't make leave.

That is messed up. She really broke up with you just because you had a black roommate? Are you sure that was such a great relationship if she broke up for something like that? Unless he was actively doing something shitty that seems crazy.

But then again, women are very judgemental against everyone and everything for any reason no matter how trivial so it wouldn't suprise me. I bet those same girls would get pissed about racist jokes and stuff too, yet look what they do.

[Triumvirate]

ETA; one more thing I will add about your last question. If you are white, and you are trying to show a white girl(s) you are in to more than just her, aka talking to other girls at a party or bar, you don't ever want to be seen talking to a black girl.

This is why I say your advice is crap Ninjamatt. You have experience in your neck of the woods - Little Rock, where a former GOVERNOR tried to stop integration of the high school by use of the National Guard, as compared to Dallas - an actual city. You have little traveling experience in your life so you have a very skewed perspective.

OP, if a white woman looks down on you for showing interest in a black woman... is that someone you want to be with? Even in the short term? Maybe that kind of racism is acceptable and even encouraged in the "city" of Little Rock, but in Dallas and other parts of the civilized world that is generally not someone you should be associating with.

[ninjamatt]

the parts of Dallas I was in I got the same impression. White women aren't in to white guys who associate with black women. It doesn't have anything to do with being racist. It has more to do with the idea interracial dating or interracial fucking is awkward especially for whites b/c whites have higher social value. A lot more blacks want in a whites world than whites want in a blacks world. I don't see how that can be argued. If that's the case why would a white girl want a white guy who talks to black girls.

I actually had a bad experience with this memorial weekend. I was at a karokee bar sitting at a table with 2 hottie friends and trying to get a 3 some. Both were in to me but one's body language seemed hesitant on the 3some idea. A friend of mine who dates black women but is one of the best karokee singers in Arkansas walks in with his black girl. I told my 2 girls "there's the guy I was telling you about, I'm gonna go see if he will sing" so I go talk to him, meet his new black girl, and after about 45 minutes of positive conversation with my 2 girls, when I turned around to come back to them after asking my friend if he was going to sing, the 2 girls were gone.

Lesson learned; don't have white friends who date black women!!!!!!!

[ninjamatt]

Open cheese, to answer your question, there were a couple other issues. But to her, that seemed to be the main issue. One reason was b/c she stopped texting me for 2 weeks, ignored about 3 texts over time time and one day I just decided to call her. She answered and the first question was, "does that black girl still live there" . another issue was that she lived 45 minutes away and always wanted me to go to her house. She wouldn't come here and I live in the city she clubs.

I think the proper way to handle a large social setting like a bar is not to be mean to them, but do not make eye contact with them or watch their figures. If you go out enough or work with any black women, you are going to get a black woman approaching you who wants to fuck you who could make a lot of men's dicks hard. The best strategy to handle it is to be nice and respond to what she says but not to make eye contact and look for an out. Where white guys are going wrong is that they don't have much experience and they get excited and tunnel vision to the black and it's obvious to the crowd that it's not a girl he would have approached but then he looks like he just won the lottery. That's kind of a milestone you can gauge where you are, or where any of your friends or wings are. If they are blowing off reasonably cute blacks staggering in to them or you are, it's a good indication. If you are a 5'4 300 pound 2 and riahanna or beyonce walks in the door, go ahead and approach them.

eta. Trimvirate does have a good point though. If 80% of women frown on guys who associate with black women, is that the type of girl you really want? I think it's a group think thing either among their friends or family they respect, or both. But do you want group thinkers or that 20% who's an independent thinker?