FR: close but no cigar

[Eazy]

Last weekend my old friend mike came to visit. He's not big into the game (he doesnt really need to because he looks like a male model) but he practices some of the basic tactics and he is naturally a great wingman. We hit the usual spots around uptown (primebar, renfields, the den, etc). Usually when mike is in town we dont care too much about sarging but this mindstate usually makes it way easier.

First stop- primebar
We walk in to meet a group of 10-11 people. I knew girls were interested as soon as we walked in because model mike was there and we were shaking so many hands. We walked to the bar up by the patio and oredered a few drinks and opened a set that was also ordering drinks (i love doing this because it looks like you walked up for a reason ther that them, if done right) we joked around and had the girls smiling for about 5 min and excused ourselves without closing anything. reason being, i just got out of a reltionship and my ex is a model (a real one, not the type that have some random with a camera take photoshopped pics of them) and i refuse to downgrade very much. Is this a good mentality to have??? as we walked to the bathroom a set opened us. Unfortanately, only 1 was attractive. i would say she was an 8. everything flowed perfect with her and i got her number (first date is this thurs)

Next stop- renfields
nothing very cool happened

Next stop- the den
nothing very cool happened

Last stop- Sfuzzi
We met a few of my friends here for some late night pizza. My friend i was meetings gf had 2 friends with her, gorgeous 10s. we were a little drunk at this point so i was trying to be careful not to get too bold. theses girls were seniors at smu and had the super sophisticated classy vibe (which is what i am into) everything flowed well but it was time to go. my buddy was going to his gfs and these girls were going home. we were just walking to an apt. i didnt want to give up yet so we made a joke about them taking us home. they offered to give us a ride. we were laughing a lot during the 3 min drive and we told them to come in, "we were going to have an afterparty." they agreed. my goal, at this point, was to keep them comfortable. now, we knew we werent getting laid by these girls, they were just waay too classy and i was warned earlier in the evening. but we would have gotten something. as we pulled in the parking garage, she asks "where is it safe to park?" at this point, i really thought we were in. last minute, as we are getting out of the car they change their minds drop us off and head on their way. they say "i think we"re just gonna go home, we are tired" WTF??? i need feedback. what causes them to agree and then back out?

Sorry about the bad ending! ive been out of the game and It was my first night out, as a single guy, in 2 years.

[talontron]

first yes its a bad mentality to have. I only sleep with tens bullshit. dont, how do you get better at fucking chicks? by fucking chicks. all girls are the same so dont have this mentality cuz you wont get laid that much

the reason why you lost them is cause you didn't lead enough. also were very reactive. you were changing your personality to make them like you. which is what most pua do lol. except worse cuz they use gay routines, which is to control the interaction itself. which is really fucking hard to do, cuz your playing with people who have their own minds and you have to realize interacting with people is extremely random.

so "PUA"s use routines to make the interaction go well so they dont have to look bad. but in the end it will be a GIGANTIC waste of time. cuz if she doesnt like you, she wont like you.

its best to use the full power of your PERSONALITY, and be polarizing. cuz thats where the power is.

some people will love you, some people will hate you. but when that girl likes you, damn is it a strong connection. its about finding that chemistry.

generally its about 1/3 will like you, 1/3 will be haha but no (some reason they cant), 1/3 will tell you to fuck off. find the ones that like you

you also didnt have the belief that they wanted you and they felt that.. everything is inner belief cuz it manifests as subtle cues that the girls can pick up on. think your awesome

get more girls and problems will fix themselves. have that abundance mentality.

they didnt trust you enough to go in so they left.

[Eazy]

Im not limiting myself to tens, but i dont wanna try too hard with anything less than an eight maybe a seven (obviously, alcohol can change my standards) if im not attracted to a girl then im not gonna waste time. Personally, I feel like talking to ugly chicks lowers value. If a 10 sees you working hard on a 5 her thought is "he'll hook up with anything he can get". If the same ten see you talking to a 8 or 9 she is more intrigued. Everybody wants what pretty people have. 8s,9s,10s usually work the same way as 5s,6s, and 7s. Plus the more attractive girls usually have more confidence and are easier to carry on a convo with. So why waste time with the haggard ones??? Ive always dated very attractive women, so maybe I've gotten a little spoiled/picky.

[Triumvirate]

Im not limiting myself to tens, but i dont wanna try too hard with anything less than an eight maybe a seven

Why are you "trying" with anyone? You should be just a social guy, talking to everyone. A ten should never see you trying with her or anyone else.

Personally, I feel like talking to ugly chicks lowers value.

If you aren't showing sexual intent toward the ugly girl then your "value" can't be lowered. Also, she has her own shit to worry about. She doesn't care if some guy who is not showing alpha male traits is talking to some ugly woman. Like she really doesn't care or probably even notice.

What USUALLY happens is that if you are showing strong body language and making women or even men react to you, instead of you reacting to them, she'll come over and introduce herself. At the very least, when you go and open her right after she saw these people reacting to you, she'll start qualifying herself to you. Try it out, its crazy.

if im not attracted to a girl then im not gonna waste time.

This is completely ignoring the concept of moment. I know very few guys(read none) who can chode out for an hour because "the chicks aren't hot enough" then suddenly turn it on when the dime piece of the club walks in. Besides, are you honestly going to tell me its better to talk to your wing, than it is to talk to women, even less than stellar women?

I can't speak for your experiences, but I definitely want to dissuade any newer guys from getting into the sniper mentality and head toward the shotgun mentality. So this part here is meant for the new guys:

Open Everything!

"But Triumvirate that's a numbers game. Anyone can get a girl if he talks to everyone"

Your goal is to get a girl. The way to do that is to talk to a lot of people. Get on it.

Build up your reference experiences as quickly as possible and build up your momentum up by opening all. Its much easier to talk to the dime piece of the club after she is the 12th set of the night, after you've had a few phone numbers, after a few make-outs, than it is to talk to her after you've been talking to your buddy about the Ranger's chances of making the play-offs.

"But Triumvirate, I have a natural friend who doesn't have to approach anyone, and he gets good-looking women all the time"

You aren't him, get over it

Its a bad idea to have the "I only talk to tens" mentality. Instead, its much better to have the "I will talk to everyone, but I will only show sexual intent to the tens" mentality.

Happy Sarging!

[voyager]

Of course, Triumvirate nailed it as usual. And good input from talontron as well.


Personally, I'd rather feed my libido than my ego. If I'm attracted, it's game on.

[Eazy]

I see where you guys are coming from and I agree with some of the points. I am appreciative and open to all criticism. I'll give it a shot! The best thing I got from your feedback is - I can socialize with anyone without making them an actual target. Just because I'm talking to a 4 doesn't mean I'm showing sexual/flirtatious interest. Also- swallow my pride. I can see pride/ego being the biggest cockblock in the field. Thanks guys!

[talontron]

if you dont talk to everyone, you wont build social momentum. which is huge part of your success.

and a hot girl wont care if your talking to a ugly chick. she will see you as a fun, social, cool guy

which is what she wants.

[ninjamatt]

Im not limiting myself to tens, but i dont wanna try too hard with anything less than an eight maybe a seven (obviously, alcohol can change my standards) if im not attracted to a girl then im not gonna waste time. Personally, I feel like talking to ugly chicks lowers value. If a 10 sees you working hard on a 5 her thought is "he'll hook up with anything he can get". If the same ten see you talking to a 8 or 9 she is more intrigued. Everybody wants what pretty people have. 8s,9s,10s usually work the same way as 5s,6s, and 7s. Plus the more attractive girls usually have more confidence and are easier to carry on a convo with. So why waste time with the haggard ones??? Ive always dated very attractive women, so maybe I've gotten a little spoiled/picky.

Here's what I would have said on the ride home: "we would love to invite ya'll in, but we cant b/c....." Here you can say something like, "me and him are in the middle of a wii tournament." Or, something similar to what you are probably familiar with as the "push-pull" method. when you say "we are going to have an after party" that is real suggestive to the quality girl of booze which leads to sex. If you start insinuating sex before they are emotionally attracted to you, it's going to do a lot of damage. If you don't have a wii, and you're gonna be in a lot of situations like what you just describe, you might wanna get one. If they think there's something fun to do that doesn't involve something that would lead to sex, they are more prone to agree. The idea of non-inviting them upfront uses reverse psychology. Even if they are sluts who initially take offense and think, "ok fuck him then" it's easy to recover from.

Eazy I like your attitude and goals. You seem more picky than average so I can relate. The issue I have with some advice you are given here is that, if you are talking to everyone even the 4's and 5's in a bar, and you do it in the same area's over a period of time, even if you've done it 2 or 3 times in one club in the course of one hour, eventually you are going to get the "haggards" that are drunk, sloppy, and won't leave you alone. You may blow them off after a few minutes, but even if you are downright cruel, or just take the ignore attitude, they are subject to coming back. I also think your logic is sound in that, if a 10 sees you talking to a 5, she has a good chance to assume you "date down" and aren't picky so I would say more times than not it lowers your social value. I would much rather talk to my wing about the rangers making the play offs, than a 5 or even a 7 for that matter.

On the other hand, the guys in this thread are giving good advice in that you need to talk to people, and talk to them the same way you would a 10, at least initially, at least most of the time. You can begin to tweak your conversation, after that initial open, on the 10 and gear it toward some sort of pua strategy. I like targeting good looking or wealthy looking men the same way I do women b/c hot women will flock to good looking pairs or 3somes of guys who are hanging out and don't make it obvious they are trolling for pussy (which is extremely easy to spot). Generally more than 3 men in a group is too much.

I'm gonna give you a simple example of something that happened to me last night at a local sports bar while watching the basketball final. Me and my wing are standing about 4 feet behind the main bar facing the tv which overlooks the bar. Some muscled up guy about late 20's and his 9 caliber blonde come stand close to me with him on my side. Keep in mind, I'm focused on the game but I want to talk to him. So after about a minute of him there, Miami goes up by like 8, and a guy in front of us sitting at the bar who was obviously rooting for Celtics gets up abruptly and walks off. I told the muscle guy, "I think dude got mad and left". keep in mind about 5 minutes was left in the game and celtics still had time to come back. I would have said that to either him, or the girl if the girl was standing there instead; no matter if the girl was with him, alone, or with another girl or if he was alone. It did get a small conversation going about the game and Lebron James, but still most of my attention was on the game.

After the game, the couple moved and we are still in the same spot watching the band(it's a unique popular spot to hang). I'm talking to my wing about several Kroger oven pizzas I bought on sale for 1.75. We got in a friendly argument about rather or not frozen pizzas expire. At that point, about 2 feet away from me, we had a fat girl, lets say a 4, with 2 semi decent figures say 5'7 135 range, probably 7s with her. and I'm extremely curious about this frozen pizza expiring. I thought about asking her if she knew rather or not they did. But I didn't. The reason is, the set didn't interest me and the chances would have been decent the fat one or at least one of them wouldn't go away. Had she answered my question and shut up, that would have been fine. But what are the chances I'm talking to her, and a much hotter piece walks by, or doesn't walk my direction at all b/c of that? Another thing I considered was, one of these 7's could have got into a convo with my wing, which he would have probably liked, but I didn't want at that particular time.

I have a wing I use about once or twice per month, b/c he has access to certain things non-pua related I want. He's not picky and over the course of a couple years he's made girlfriends with some extremely average looking drunk women. The women are out all the time and I can be minding my own business and they come flying out of nowhere wanting to talk. There's about 5 of these he has and they do it when i'm out with other wings. It kind of gets me in a bit of a bad mood. At one point I had to be cruel to one of them b/c she tried to get to aggressive with me, she told him, and he was upset with me. When you start dipping down to women or even wings of substantially lower social value than you, you will have a lot of that. It's a matter of do you want to open the pandora's box to all that and if so how much and to what level.

[Eazy]

Ninjamatt

It seems that you and I have a very similar style/mindset. I'm not cocky or conceited but I set my standards high because a) know I'm capable b) I feel I deserve it. I'm very social when I go out and I do it without talking to ugly girls. I open a lot of people, but I don't want to be the "he's trying to hit on every girl here guy" I see that all the time and i know (because I've asked girls as an opener) it's not appealing. Don't get me wrong, I see the value in talking to a lot of people but personally I try to talk to people that "look" as if they have high value.

Also, I would waay rather relax enjoy a game and drink a few beers with the guys than talk to some annoying girl that looks like shrek. When I was at the Byron Nelson I opened about 15 sets... The ugliest 2 wouldn't leave us alone. They were unintentionally cock blocking us. They followed us everywhere, and we got stuck. I know there's ways to get rid of them but Im not in this to lower peoples self esteem.

Every pua is different. All of us have our own styles and goals. We've all read the book but not EVERYTHING in the book applies to EVERYBODY. Some of us are more selective, some of us open everything and we all have different goals and standards. But each goal takes different techniques. I like getting feedback whether I agree with it or not and I'm very open minded to try different things because one thing we ALL have in common is that we want to improve. So keep it coming!

[ninjamatt]

thats correct. All pua's are different and different things work for different people. I don't necessarily think it's wrong to be seen talking to fat ugly girls. Women are as a whole empathetic. One might see it and realize you aren't hitting on the fat one but it might make you look good b/c she feels sorry for her,she feels you are genuine and not out for pussy and yadda yadda. I don't disagree it's a good mindset to get comfortable opening and talking to everything, but the bottom of the barrel women sometimes won't go away which is what you have to watch out for. Now, if you go in to the subway sandwich shop and a fat chick is making you a sandwich, sure be nice and talk to her like you would a 10 b/c for me, the two conversations shouldn't be much different initially.

What would you do if one of your co-workers or customers, a morbidly obese chick is in the club. At work she's a close friend. But in the club she wants to talk about work? you have to be ready for that kind of stuff