Pick Up is not a course in Engineering

[Guest]

If Pick Up were a major in college, what category would it fall under?
Communications?
Psychology?
Art? (after all it is the Pick Up ARTIST, right?)

Well, something I've learned over the past two weeks is this:
If Pick Up were a major, it would NOT BE UNDER ENGINEERING. This is not robotics, fellas.

There is no instruction manual to get you from that HB you see walking towards you to a naked girl in your bed.
There is no remote control with an "IOI" button so girls will touch their hair for you.
There is no ONE thing over all others that will dramatically increase your skills.
We aren't dealing with robots, so don't be a robot!! I learned the hard way. Opening sets with the phrase "Hey, can I/let me ask you a quick question" gets awkward responses. Why wait? Roll right into the opener!! Follow up with a story. Plow, plow, plow.

Maybe Pick Up falls under gardening.

Warning: This is 4 Field Reports in 1. My later FRs will go into more detail per report, but for the sake of everyone I'll try to keep each day brief.

FR #1: My First Wing'd Day Game

Acuity and Solace, artists on a whole other level, approach me for the first time. I believe the first actual words spoken to me were "Man, this Merry-Go-Round is freaking me out." Gotta love it. I had no idea what to expect. Looking at all the different videos, I figured all PUAs were cocky/funny or permanent alpha males, trying to out-frame everyone until they claimed ownership of the room. Boy was I wrong.

Solace, who looked like a typical PUA at first, actually seemed very willing to stoop down to my level and explain certain aspects of my game that were lacking. I could tell from his cool demeanor and sly smile that, as Jay-Z would put it, he had 99 problems but a bitch ain't one.
Acuity also impressed me with his skills in-set and his humor out of set. He seemed to be more at my level than Solace, which was a relief knowing I wasn't the only one on this forum struggling to get that almighty f-close. Hallelujah!

This was the first official day I had ever sarged with a legit wing. I mean, I have a friend who comes with me sometimes, but he'll just get blown out or won't open. Holding me back! So it was me, Acuity, Solace, and Stonebriar Mall. Time to whip out the day game!

All-in-all I approached 5 sets and got 4 numbers. Here's the highlights:
Opened a 2 set before Acuity and Solace arrived. Used the "Hey, what store do you prefer on guys?" opener. They actually walked me to Hollister, Abercrombie, and American Eagle. Time Bridge, chicka yeaa. Got 2 numbers. They were sisters so when I texted one, the other got jealous. How to handle this situation? I'm still trying to figure out how to handle two friends when I text them separately. Sheesh, women.
With Acuity, we managed to pull 2 HBs to a Starbucks table after Solace found us and almost yelled "LOCK EM IN." haha. Props on that, btw Solace. Acuity was BAD-ASS in this set. He hired them as our bodyguards, made them dance, did the questions game. All golden. Number close. They were sisters too, with big titties. I had trouble looking away. I probably got caught staring haha. O_O
The other sets were mainly blowouts, just warm-up stuff to get it rolling. There was one where me and Acuity opened up these three girls where one was obviously the most attractive one. She locked us out. Her loss. We were even talking about buying kick-ass presents for christmas, I guess she won't get one.

Lessons:
1) Don't plow with questions. 90/10 rule.
2) Good posture. (credit Solace on correcting this, I was rocking out of set accidentally after I hooked, which made it awkward)
3) Girls are younger than they look.

FR #2: Chillin' with Solace

Day Game at Northpark. Actually, it was really more learning and us talking than sarging. Although a few sets (maybe 4 total by me) were opened, basically I got a few valuable lessons that I will hold on to.

Lessons:
1) Do Not Be ROBOTIC. I need to break away from canned material and start conveying MY personality, not Mystery or Style's.
2) Don't give a prelude to the opener. Don't say "Hey, let me ask you a question, who do you think lies more guys or girls?", just say "Hey, who do you think lies more guys or girls?"
3) Walk with swagger and threat. Before, I would walk sort of slouched and in set I would sway backward almost, giving off a really harsh vibe. Now, I have a sexual tone to my interactions
4) KINO ASAP. Open with kino, high five, fist pound, hand shake, thumb war, anything an everything. How can you escalate without kino?
5) DO NOT lock feet into one place, causing you to NEVER move while in set. I had a really bad habit of opening and then locking my feet, never moving around, which would stop me from kinoing easily and would cause me to lose balance sometimes when I'm doing outrageous arm movements.

FR #3: Just me and Acuity. Later Just/Us

Me and Acuity hit up Stonebriar for a little day game action. I meet him while he's eating lunch so we talk about Halloween and some goals. We walk around Stonebriar and neither of us is really feelin' it. The bandana I have on is cutting off the circulation to my brain and we keep opening 12 year old girls. They looked at least 15 I swear!! We kept breaking into other people's realities. As we would walk by, we would hear someone say something, and we would come up with a ridiculous conclusion or response to throw their way. There was a booth set up for a magazine talking about I love my ___ life. Acuity started hitting on some girl there. Negged her whenever she would try to shit test him by saying "You work here, aren't you supposed to be nice to the customers? Sheesh." Pretty sweet actually being in set with Acuity. Watching him gives me a sort of base-line to judge how to do some of these obscure routines like C/U shaped smile and questions game. He does them really well. Gets good responses at least. After all this happened, we decided to hit up Northpark. We met up with Just/Us and we showed him a good time. As soon as he arrived I hooked a 2 set and #-closed both. Nice. Then we pushed Just/Us to open a set. He opened with a great line that actually made us laugh: "Hey, do you like horses?" We thought he said do you like oranges. So while he was in set, me and Acuity discussed the importance of the orange in a well-balanced diet. You know, regular man-talk. We opened a 2 set, they were "waiting for a movie." We had fun with them. They were giving off serious IOI's, but the target doesn't "give out her number." Lame.

Lessons:
1) Routines sound really contrived when you run them with a wing who continues the thread for you. For example, I brought up C/U shape smile on the 2-set and Acuity finished the routine. Probably seemed weird to the girls.
2) Don't come off like a creep. The point of Pick Up is to be SOCIABLE and SOCIALIZE not to force a girl to imagine you're cool so she'll give you her number. I need to stop using so many routines.
3) HIGH FIVE. Acuity does this so well. OH, you took a breath? HIGH FIVE! (dramatization)

FR #4: A high school dance and my first club

"Yea, just be casual. Don't dress like a PUA!" Sent message to Solace. He came down last Saturday to pump up my night game. What a blast. We started the night at my sister school's dance. IT WAS SHITTY. Downright dishonorable. I feel bad for even suggesting the idea, but it would've been better if everyone didn't leave because the DJ kept switching tracks mid-song. For the 30 minutes we stayed, the DJ managed to play What is Love, Barbie Girl, and Jump On It. Amazing. Props to his obvious grasp of the teenage mind. Solace felt awkward, we had alcohol and wanted to pull some girls back to my place, but he didn't want to give alcohol to any girl there. We hit up a 2-set, I got the #s. Solace's date (who I set up for him) apparently got back with her BF that night, and constantly tried to pull Solace into her frame. She got severely frame crushed and pouted the whole night. We decided to head out, and we hit up Afterlife. That shit is crazy. Not only was it my first club EVER, but the girls there are usually half-naked and on X. Let the games begin. The whole night I used the fact that it was my first club to my advantage. Here was the general opener: "Hey, this is the first club I've ever been to. This is fucking insane! I'm looking to learn to stomp dance, do you know how?" It worked 2 times. I got blown out so hard once that I almost wanted to give up. There were two main highlights of the night. The first was when Solace and I jumped onto the large air-platform-bounce-thing and Solace got into a boxing match (with oversized gloves) against this huge guy. His opponent had a good 6 inches I'm sure. Solace knocked him the fuck down. The guy gave Solace props the rest of the night. The second was when this girl and her friend come up to us and ask me if I will pay them a dollar to hug me. After some smooth auctioning and negging of this girl, I get two kisses within 30 seconds of meeting this girl. We reinitiate with them throughout the night since they are the only real prospects we have to take home. They want to roll so they just stay. Damn druggies. One of the girls actually had to go to church the next morning too haha.

Lessons:
1) KINO fast. KINO hard. Especially in club/night game where the music is loud.
2) Don't be TOO high energy. Have just enough to enter into their world.
3) Don't do ecstasy. It makes you dance like your trying to kill a rat and "light shows" drive you insane.

--Skepsis

[Guest]

Funny to hear you compare pickup to engineering because I've done the same myself before. I've tried breaking it down into discrete components and creating a systematic method out of what works, and what doesn't. It turns out this possible to an extent....but you'll never come to a perfect system.
You can develop a very good system...but there will always be a situation out there that doesn't fit. So you adjust, re-situate, and try again...etc.
After a while, you find yourself with a unique system has evolved from your experiences....but its not something you can just hand off verbatim to someone else and expect it to work for them just the same.

Pickup has its basic fundamentals....but each person who learns it MUST implement it in a way that fits them. That sounds cliche and over-stated...but its more empirically true than anything.

There is no one way to do things that will work for everyone, in every situation, and on every girl. You have to learn what works for YOU and make your own functions to control your own free-variables. You do this by watching other people fail/succeed, trying and failing/succeeding yourself, using other peoples' ideas and concepts, and overall just picking up the patterns until your system becomes more and more efficient.

So in reality, pickup really is all about engineering.
Those who can break down both successful and unsuccessful interactions, examine why they were successful (or not), and incorporate a fix to their system are the ones who become the most successful.
...but, again, this is not a system thats going to be universal to every situation, and its especially going to be fairly specific to you.

For example, when I'm at a house party (I live in a college town) my game is going to run significantly more high-energy and fun than my game will run in a big bar somewhere in a city. This is because my experiences have taught me that these are the generally optimal parameters for these two situations.
On the other hand, I have friends that can own an entire bar in the same way I can own a party....and it just works for them and their persona.

IMO, a good 'PUA' is someone who can enter ANY social situation, adjust themselves (AKA 'calibrate', at risk of using a loaded word) to that situation, and adapt to the social dynamic of that environment such that it is to their own advantage.
This person can prove to a girl that he is an attractive person just as much as he can prove to a mixed set or group of guys that he is someone they WANT to be around (not just DONT MIND being around).

The fact that this skill is an evolution of experience is why you'll constantly hear the more experienced members say 'Stick with it, keep trying, and youll do well'.
They're giving empirical advice thats very true but sometimes hard to see until you actually go through it.

[Guest]

props for makin me look like a baby snatcher! lol

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback AlphaMo. IMO engineering involves creating something from nothing, that has a specific use and intention. In this case, pick up is creating an interaction from nothing with the intention of building attraction, rapport, comfort, whatever with your target. I can agree that the ability to consistently break down each and every interaction into the smallest bits and pieces is very useful and even beneficial. But this is not my point.

Building a single set of routines to use EVERY SINGLE SET is not how the game works. Shit needs to be calibrated. Is she laughing? Does she want to punch me in the nuts? The same material won't always work. What I'm really getting at is that in Legos, for example, there is say a 50 piece disassembled mess and a set manual to make that into an awesome helicopter or whatever. In pick up, you can't see a situation and have everything planned out from start to finish. Shit happens. Plans are changed. Logistics get fucked or a girl isn't into you. Don't get so caught up in repeating that sweet routine you just found on mASF word-for-word that you forget the voice tonality, body language and other key components.

O and np Solace haha that Fajita place was sketchy as fuck!!

[Guest]

haha Dirty stick boy!

And now youre catching on. This is exactly why i HATE and discourage the use of main-stream openers, and 99% of canned material. We are pu Artists so most times you need to think for yourself.

[Guest]

[quote1225845858=Skepsis]
Building a single set of routines to use EVERY SINGLE SET is not how the game works. Shit needs to be calibrated.
[/quote1225845858]

Agreed...and in fact I think this re-iterates my point.
To clarify, I wasn't talking about routines in the sense of common community jargon. I was referring your 'system' of pickup where 'system' is a collection of functional guidelines that you've developed to provide optimal results in a situation.
Some might say that your 'system' gets internalized with your personality/etc....and I agree that it does....but none the less, there is a reason why new guys aren't as successful as those who have been working at learning the game for a while:
They don't yet have a system for success yet. The functional guidelines you develop are the components of this system and they allow you to understand social interactions and the outcomes thereof.

When you build these guidelines based on your experiences and observations, you engineer your system.

[quote1225845858=Skepsis]
In pick up, you can't see a situation and have everything planned out from start to finish.
[/quote1225845858]

When building a bridge, you gather requirements for the bridge in order to design it. (i.e. how far across is the gap? why types of stressors will it have to withstand? does it need a drawbridge in the middle? etc).
Furthermore, once you've gathered these requirements, you don't actively analyze stress points for each discrete point in the bridge....you develop a math function that gives meaningful outputs given arbitrary inputs to identify (test/determine/etc) the peak stress points of the bridge.

So, when attempting to pickup a woman, you must gather requirements for that situation. (i.e. are we in a club? is there loud music? is she drunk? did she just blow out that guy who walked away from her? etc).
Furthermore, you don't actively analyze every possible outcome (shit-test/verbal response/physical response/etc) that may occur in set, and pre-plan a response for it....you have a set of functional guidelines that you've developed based on having hit those metaphorical stress-points in sets before.

Those functional guidelines are what you are developing in order to successfully engineer a set.
You are also constantly improving those functional guidelines as you find faults in them.

When you attempt to apply the outcome of one engineered set (say, by using a specific routine you got from Mystery or mASF or wherever), you may find success on occasion...but you wouldn't know why and you'd have no input parameters to adjust.
On the other hand, it can be productive to attempt to reverse engineer the outcomes of others at first by trying them and seeing where they work and where they don't.

This would be the metaphorical equivalent to designing a bridge based on another bridge in a different location without the design documents....you can see what materials and structures where used in the other bridge...but there's no telling why they picked those materials/structures/etc and so useage of them in a different situation may result in a bridge that collapses.

[Guest]

BTW, I think the idea of breaking down PU this much is somewhat counter-productive for the really new guys....I think its best to get out there and just get better in field...this stuff will come to you on its own.

On the other hand, I think alot of guys who have spent any amount of time in the community have a fundamental interest in retroactively analyzing how they've come to the point they're at so that they can understand how and where to go from there in order to continue progression.

[Guest]

Yea, you have a point I guess. I'm kinda curious though. Whenever I get 2 numbers from a 2 set, it always seems awkward texting them separately because I have a mental image of them looking at the texts I'm sending or something. How do you handle two girls via text? or maybe ditch that game plan and hit them up phone style?

[Guest]

[quote1225941112=AlphaMo]
BTW, I think the idea of breaking down PU this much is somewhat counter-productive for the really new guys....I think its best to get out there and just get better in field...this stuff will come to you on its own.

On the other hand, I think alot of guys who have spent any amount of time in the community have a fundamental interest in retroactively analyzing how they've come to the point they're at so that they can understand how and where to go from there in order to continue progression.
[/quote1225941112]

AlphaMo is dead on.

All the different 'methods' are simply reverse engineering what seems to have worked for particular people(or groups of people w/ similar style). They found the parallels through observations and so forth and broken them down in discrete steps or 'phases' and now try to say... if you go through these phases sequentially... you reach a certain endpoint.(the girl)

If A, then B type of logic.

As the community has evolved, what has happened is that there have been reoccurring successful themes that have emerged across these different methods. These parallels have bubbled up as the tenets or 'community principles' that you will see float around. What that does is somewhat remove the variables that are introduced by an individual method.

What's floated to the top are generally the things that fall under 'becoming a better man', eye contact, body language, presence, leading/leadership, general social skills, etc, not so much recognizing if you are in A2 or A3 or some other method bullshit. Interestingly enough, skills that have fundamental sociological roots, both in and out of PU.

Which is why that's what noobs need to focus on, rather than learning the details of a particular method. Someone can spend months or thousands of dollars trying to learn a method that is not congruent with who they are.

[Guest]

the art of social dynamics in relation to a field of science or math in my opinion is closest to psych. But thats just my take on the subject. Its a dynamic model that is a bunch of theories that are constantly changing and evolving as society also changes and evolves its social practices. Whats morally ethical now, you definately couldnt get away with 10 yrs ago. We have been spring breakified