Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
The roller coaster of life................
35 posts
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by Guest » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:32 pm
[quote1216836827=Howiestern]
Its a combination of things.....Definitely the pua skills have helped. But I can't discount the fact that I've gotten back to the guy I used to be. Yeah this whole thing is probably meant to be. It just won't settle out so we can go our own ways. Things keep happening.
[/quote1216836827]
Bullsh.... Nothing is meant to be. We have a choice to be moral. We have a choice to better ourselves. We have a choice to see things through.
If it was meant to be than she wouldn't have to do anything and you wouldn't have to do anything to get together again.
She is making a choice... using her free will... against the shame and admitting she made a mistake.
You are making a choice to let her back in heart with the possibility of more pain OR you can hate and slam the door on a slut.
I hope opportunities keep happening for you guys.
Its a combination of things.....Definitely the pua skills have helped. But I can't discount the fact that I've gotten back to the guy I used to be. Yeah this whole thing is probably meant to be. It just won't settle out so we can go our own ways. Things keep happening.
[/quote1216836827]
Bullsh.... Nothing is meant to be. We have a choice to be moral. We have a choice to better ourselves. We have a choice to see things through.
If it was meant to be than she wouldn't have to do anything and you wouldn't have to do anything to get together again.
She is making a choice... using her free will... against the shame and admitting she made a mistake.
You are making a choice to let her back in heart with the possibility of more pain OR you can hate and slam the door on a slut.
I hope opportunities keep happening for you guys.
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:45 pm
Man, your story (initially) makes me sad. It really does seem like you guys were 'meant to be' together. Having spent so much time together and actually being friends, creating a life that works, etc...but when you get down to the day to day there are two of you, you are individual people, and people have their patterns and personalities. One thing that has not been looked at in detail here is how and why you two drifted apart. She definitely has some work and some making-up-for-the-past to do, since she's the one who broke the marriage vows, but in my experience, people don't just up and cheat without a good reason. Not saying this to justify, but typically these things do not just happen on their own out of sheer rotten character.
So anyway, I agree completely with what Alphagame and other posters have said (except for the part about the adulterous generation--I see it as society is putting less controls on women in terms of men in some areas, and that's just a double standard like any other...and double standards do not come without real consequences...it actually works to our advantage...think about it) She may be able to cheat but so can you, and besides, because she can cheat and get do her own thing and have a career, etc, you can also never marry her if you do not want to and not sign away 1/2 if you do not want to and remain a bachelor and still have one woman on lock...yes...it has Real Consequences.
Back on topic...definitely she needs to jump through some hoops to get back, though I think based on what you've written she knows she needs to make up for things and she wants to take time to be by herself anyway. So whether you impose it or she does, she will do some 'housecleaning' so to speak to put things back in order.
Now the other part to this (off PUA obviously) is your role in the breakup. You might want to look over the relationship and see what you did and or did not do to have her have the time, freedom, etc, to get to where she ended up. Then again it could have been fine and good for you both in some way in that you were basically high school sweethearts. When did either of you get to stop and smell the roses? Ah, the roses... :P How wonderful the scent! Seriously though, if not youth only, then what would give fertile ground for something like this? I would start there and end there. In addition to continually building yourself and your life up and staying safe on your bike! I would also take care of her and put myself in a position where I could provide for her emotionally and be there for her as a strong man (I mean the kind of strength a friend gives a friend, and the kind of strength shared by soulmates!) because every relationship has two sides. Give and give completely and she will give back to you in return. Best of luck and do forgive the length!
So anyway, I agree completely with what Alphagame and other posters have said (except for the part about the adulterous generation--I see it as society is putting less controls on women in terms of men in some areas, and that's just a double standard like any other...and double standards do not come without real consequences...it actually works to our advantage...think about it) She may be able to cheat but so can you, and besides, because she can cheat and get do her own thing and have a career, etc, you can also never marry her if you do not want to and not sign away 1/2 if you do not want to and remain a bachelor and still have one woman on lock...yes...it has Real Consequences.
Back on topic...definitely she needs to jump through some hoops to get back, though I think based on what you've written she knows she needs to make up for things and she wants to take time to be by herself anyway. So whether you impose it or she does, she will do some 'housecleaning' so to speak to put things back in order.
Now the other part to this (off PUA obviously) is your role in the breakup. You might want to look over the relationship and see what you did and or did not do to have her have the time, freedom, etc, to get to where she ended up. Then again it could have been fine and good for you both in some way in that you were basically high school sweethearts. When did either of you get to stop and smell the roses? Ah, the roses... :P How wonderful the scent! Seriously though, if not youth only, then what would give fertile ground for something like this? I would start there and end there. In addition to continually building yourself and your life up and staying safe on your bike! I would also take care of her and put myself in a position where I could provide for her emotionally and be there for her as a strong man (I mean the kind of strength a friend gives a friend, and the kind of strength shared by soulmates!) because every relationship has two sides. Give and give completely and she will give back to you in return. Best of luck and do forgive the length!
- Guest
by Guest » Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:57 pm
Good Post Shaddox...
My counselor said it has to do with fullfilling her NEEDS.
It can be many things and she probably won't know exactly what it is.
But the cheating is just a side effect... not the cause of the marriage problem.
Fullfilling her Needs would be a main goal according to the Counselor but I have learned so much more from PUA that is not even explained but the medical psyc community... like the Shit Test, Social Proof and Framing.
I don't know... I am learning myself... but it seems to me MAYBE just MAYBE... PUA stuff is for short term relationship quick attraction results and the Psyc and Religious Stuff for LTR.
My counselor said it has to do with fullfilling her NEEDS.
It can be many things and she probably won't know exactly what it is.
But the cheating is just a side effect... not the cause of the marriage problem.
Fullfilling her Needs would be a main goal according to the Counselor but I have learned so much more from PUA that is not even explained but the medical psyc community... like the Shit Test, Social Proof and Framing.
I don't know... I am learning myself... but it seems to me MAYBE just MAYBE... PUA stuff is for short term relationship quick attraction results and the Psyc and Religious Stuff for LTR.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:53 am
Fulfilling her needs is definitely one thing I quit doing. She's mentioned some things along those lines as well. In the last few months her grandma died and some issues have come up with her stupid boyfriend. So when she runs into these problems, she calls me up and wants to talk. I listen, support her, and give a little advice. I'm definitely the one she comes to for her emotional needs. I'm not going to fulfill these needs of hers forever with out some commitment at some point. I'm not interested in being her "rock" unless there is something in it for me at some point. I want more than friends in the future or I don't want anything at all. Right now she wants a friend and doesn't know what she wants in the near future but might want something deeper down the road.
I've noticed a lot of women like to take the friendship route to start off a relationship and sometimes I feel this is what my ex wants to do. Its like the female brain lacks the ability to analyze and predict the situation at hand so they want the safe route so less feelings get hurt when it comes apart. Women are all so damn flakey.
We'll see how it goes tonight together at CrueFest.
I've noticed a lot of women like to take the friendship route to start off a relationship and sometimes I feel this is what my ex wants to do. Its like the female brain lacks the ability to analyze and predict the situation at hand so they want the safe route so less feelings get hurt when it comes apart. Women are all so damn flakey.
We'll see how it goes tonight together at CrueFest.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:51 am
Well, I came into the community to learn about women.
Not that PUA have the whole answer... but seems to me an equal part of the puzzle.
I am not an expert... I am just spouting off what I heard... Wisdom and Knowledge that someone told me, I still haven't figure out all the "Why's" and "How's" and applying the knowledge is the hard part.
Women needs unconditional Love (and Security).
Men needs unconditional Respect.
This is what it all boils down to at the very very end of the clutter.
All this stuff from PUA... (to me seems to) promote a sense of safe and "secure" feelings for the women that you meet in a very quick amount of time.
Most men are seeking unconditional Respect... a woman (your other half) that will always stick by you and believe in you and will support whatever your goal is.... no matter how many times you failed. Her looks will fade.
It seems to me you are providing security and a solid foundation.
You can also provide unConditional Love to her without getting back with her.... unConditional Love doesn't dissolve what she did wrong... there are still consequence for her actions.
You guys might need to go to a counselor... It will be worth it. There may be other pre-existing conditions and issues that requires digging from a professional (someone with experience) and to resolve.
The CR James said something like this... "I Love you, and I still Love you even after everything you have done... But I don't Need you. I can do it without you and I don't need anyone else."
I have to say again it is the tough road you are choosing.
The "Trust" issue will be a challenge.
And the answer is "You can't trust her". Trust will have to be build up again and earned without you slamming "Guilt" on her and She will have to understand that she will be Questioned "Where were you?"
A third Party impartial Counselor would be best to explain this to her and setting up a system to rebuilding your relationship together.
As a Christian, I would tell you "You can't trust her after what she has done, but to give it to God." You would have to Trust God will make it right... even when there are times you can't account for her where abouts after all this happening.
Please excuse me, if I repeated myself or if you already know this stuff... I am assuming you guys just know how to Pick up and than Hunt again.
Not that PUA have the whole answer... but seems to me an equal part of the puzzle.
I am not an expert... I am just spouting off what I heard... Wisdom and Knowledge that someone told me, I still haven't figure out all the "Why's" and "How's" and applying the knowledge is the hard part.
Women needs unconditional Love (and Security).
Men needs unconditional Respect.
This is what it all boils down to at the very very end of the clutter.
All this stuff from PUA... (to me seems to) promote a sense of safe and "secure" feelings for the women that you meet in a very quick amount of time.
Most men are seeking unconditional Respect... a woman (your other half) that will always stick by you and believe in you and will support whatever your goal is.... no matter how many times you failed. Her looks will fade.
It seems to me you are providing security and a solid foundation.
You can also provide unConditional Love to her without getting back with her.... unConditional Love doesn't dissolve what she did wrong... there are still consequence for her actions.
You guys might need to go to a counselor... It will be worth it. There may be other pre-existing conditions and issues that requires digging from a professional (someone with experience) and to resolve.
The CR James said something like this... "I Love you, and I still Love you even after everything you have done... But I don't Need you. I can do it without you and I don't need anyone else."
I have to say again it is the tough road you are choosing.
The "Trust" issue will be a challenge.
And the answer is "You can't trust her". Trust will have to be build up again and earned without you slamming "Guilt" on her and She will have to understand that she will be Questioned "Where were you?"
A third Party impartial Counselor would be best to explain this to her and setting up a system to rebuilding your relationship together.
As a Christian, I would tell you "You can't trust her after what she has done, but to give it to God." You would have to Trust God will make it right... even when there are times you can't account for her where abouts after all this happening.
Please excuse me, if I repeated myself or if you already know this stuff... I am assuming you guys just know how to Pick up and than Hunt again.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:38 am
Wow, Howie, the more I read this thread, the more I wonder what's really going on here. I think it could be dangerous if you continue to be her friend if you really want her back as a girlfriend/wife.
What she might be doing is keeping you around as a security blanket. Do you think she knows she can have you back if she decides she wants you? If she does, that's a VERY bad thing for you.
What she might be doing is keeping you in the friend-zone as an orbiter that she knows she can have if she decides she wants you, but in the mean time, she could be out shopping the market for someone else. Women are VERY selfish and they WILL TRY do this almost every time they break up with a guy. The LJBF speech is EXACTLY what she wants...her ex to be her friend so she doesn't feel all alone. Ultimately, what happens is, if the guy goes along with this, thinking and hoping that he can re-attract her, it seldom works because women aren't attracted to men they can treat like shit (dump) and take back when/if she changes her mind. The alpha male she wants would never tolerate this kind of treatment. This is manipulation to the maximum and women ALWAYS lose sexual attraction for men they are able to manipulate.
Was moving into her own apartment your idea or hers?
What hoops of yours has she jumped through?
Was the car washing the other day her idea or did you more or less order her to do it?
What she might be doing is keeping you around as a security blanket. Do you think she knows she can have you back if she decides she wants you? If she does, that's a VERY bad thing for you.
What she might be doing is keeping you in the friend-zone as an orbiter that she knows she can have if she decides she wants you, but in the mean time, she could be out shopping the market for someone else. Women are VERY selfish and they WILL TRY do this almost every time they break up with a guy. The LJBF speech is EXACTLY what she wants...her ex to be her friend so she doesn't feel all alone. Ultimately, what happens is, if the guy goes along with this, thinking and hoping that he can re-attract her, it seldom works because women aren't attracted to men they can treat like shit (dump) and take back when/if she changes her mind. The alpha male she wants would never tolerate this kind of treatment. This is manipulation to the maximum and women ALWAYS lose sexual attraction for men they are able to manipulate.
Was moving into her own apartment your idea or hers?
What hoops of yours has she jumped through?
Was the car washing the other day her idea or did you more or less order her to do it?
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:28 pm
Q:Do you think she knows she can have you back if she decides she wants you?
A:Yeah she does, but I didn't leave the door wide open for that option to be available any time she wants. And I made it clear that I wasn't sure I could be friends with her. I wish the bitch would just figure out what she wants
Q:Was moving into her own apartment your idea or hers?
A: That was entirely her idea. She tends to run from her problems and this is how she dealt with it at the time.
Q:What hoops of yours has she jumped through?
A:I've told her for the past 6months that if she wants to have any relationship with me the ball is entirely in her court. I am not contributing to our friendship. Shes the one that had to make the effort. She has clearly done this.
Q:Was the car washing the other day her idea or did you more or less order her to do it?
A:That was all her doing, I tried to talk her out of it. The only thing I told her I needed help with was cleaning my house.
Here's my deal, From a PUA state of mind, I understand that I'm in a dangerous position by letting her be friends with me. But I also understand the long term logic that Imager mentioned about me fulfilling her needs and supporting her emotions. That is something I faiiled at towards the end of my marriage. What if she's running "shit tests" on me and seeing if I truly will support her and listen to her drama???? I think its sort of a risk I have to take if I want something. If I dont' support her now she'll definitely think "yeah he hasn't changed, he still doesn't listen to me".
Just as I'm looking for some changes in her, she is looking for changes in me. How can you see the changes if you don't have some interaction??
I'll let it ride for a while. Its not such a bad deal when you know what you're getting into. She does feel truly horrible for what she's done. She knows she f'd up a good thing. She knows she needs to make some self improvements before she gets on the road back to me. We've split 6months ago and its just in the last 2months shes decided to face the issues. It was her that came to me 3weeks ago asking if she could ever have a 2nd chance someday.
A:Yeah she does, but I didn't leave the door wide open for that option to be available any time she wants. And I made it clear that I wasn't sure I could be friends with her. I wish the bitch would just figure out what she wants
Q:Was moving into her own apartment your idea or hers?
A: That was entirely her idea. She tends to run from her problems and this is how she dealt with it at the time.
Q:What hoops of yours has she jumped through?
A:I've told her for the past 6months that if she wants to have any relationship with me the ball is entirely in her court. I am not contributing to our friendship. Shes the one that had to make the effort. She has clearly done this.
Q:Was the car washing the other day her idea or did you more or less order her to do it?
A:That was all her doing, I tried to talk her out of it. The only thing I told her I needed help with was cleaning my house.
Here's my deal, From a PUA state of mind, I understand that I'm in a dangerous position by letting her be friends with me. But I also understand the long term logic that Imager mentioned about me fulfilling her needs and supporting her emotions. That is something I faiiled at towards the end of my marriage. What if she's running "shit tests" on me and seeing if I truly will support her and listen to her drama???? I think its sort of a risk I have to take if I want something. If I dont' support her now she'll definitely think "yeah he hasn't changed, he still doesn't listen to me".
Just as I'm looking for some changes in her, she is looking for changes in me. How can you see the changes if you don't have some interaction??
I'll let it ride for a while. Its not such a bad deal when you know what you're getting into. She does feel truly horrible for what she's done. She knows she f'd up a good thing. She knows she needs to make some self improvements before she gets on the road back to me. We've split 6months ago and its just in the last 2months shes decided to face the issues. It was her that came to me 3weeks ago asking if she could ever have a 2nd chance someday.
- Guest
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