Props to you all

[ValkyrieRose]

Oh god.

Mega-props to all you guys at DallasPUA. I have soooooo much respect for you now it ain't even funny.

Per Mojo's suggestion I figured I'd do some people watching tonight. Not having a clue as to where the best place to go is I drove around until I found something. Ended up near the Angelika on Mockingbird. There was a nice restaurant nearby and I was hungry and the food smelled good so I figured WTH. So I'm sitting there alone at a table just watching people when I noticed a really hot guy sitting alone at a table just sipping a beer with his eyes glued to the restaurant's tv set. He seemed a decent guy, very nicely dressed and laid-back. So I'm thinking to myself, "Self, here's your chance to dust off some very rusty skills and see if you can get this guy to smile back at you. Piece of cake."

NOT.

Sooooo NOT.

I start off smiling at him when he glances around the room. Nada. He does not smile back. So I'm thinking, "Hmmm...maybe he didn't see it cause I'm not holding his gaze." Next time he glances around I smiled a bit longer. Nada...I might as well be smiling at a wall. He goes right back to gluing his eyes to the tv screen. So for the next 15 minutes I'm sitting there smiling off and on in his direction (don't want to seem too blatantly obvious ya know cause that'd scream desperation) at this guy and nothing...I mean NOTHING happens. He doesn't even bother to frown back at me. I might as well be a maniken.

So I stop for a minute and think, "Self, guys are notorious for not catching on to this sort of thing. Maybe I need to try something else". So I get up and walk to the restroom and make sure I pass right by his table and glance at him and give him a big smile. I also made sure as I approached to see if he had a wedding ring. Nope. No rings anywhere. No white band either to show he'd removed one. I smile at him on the way back to my table. Nothing. He's still sitting there with his eyes glued to the tv screen. I'm still not sure if he even notices that I'm smiling at him. That's what kills me - not knowing if he knows. If I knew he knew and was blowing me off ok..I can deal with that. It's this uncertainty that drives me nuts.

So I sit there at my table again and I'm racking my brains to think of something else to try. I remember thinking, "It sure didn't seem to be this difficult getting a guy's attention back when I was in college." Course back then I could pretty much count on most guys being single. At my age now I can never quite be sure about that. It occurred to me maybe I should just walk over and ask him a question. Hell...it's probably what Sensei (aka Mojo) might do. Unfortunately I do not have Sensei's nerves of cold steel.


So I'm sitting there holding this ridiculous debate in my head.

Does he know I'm smiling at him and just ignoring it? Maybe he thinks I'm a pest and by ignoring me he's hoping I'll go away? That's what I'd do if a guy was smiling at me like this and I had zero interest in him. OTH I keep hearing how guys are oblivious to a lot of stuff that seems blatantly obvious to women. Maybe he honestly has no freakin' clue I'm smiling at him because I liked to meet him. Maybe he just thinks I do that with everybody I see? Hell..maybe he isn't even aware I'm smiling at him. I mean...he IS focusing intently on that damn tv. God..I got a 50/50 chance he's aware and is ignoring me or he truly has no clue and might actually say hi back if I walked over and said hi to him.

And suddenly it hits me.

"Holy shit. Is this what guys go through?"

And I start cracking up.

OMG. IT IS!

I feel like getting on my knees and shouting, "Hosannah, Hosannah! Praise the Glorious Heavens I'm a woman! I don't have to walk over to meet anyone unless I just damn well want to! God Almighty praise the Heavens I'm not a guy!"


Not soon after he gets up, pays the tab and leaves. The show he was watching so intently was over. And I just sit there laughing to myself. And I get up, pay my tab and leave.

I'm still laughing.

OMG.

Mega-props to any guy who has the nerve to walk over unbidden, uncalled, unnoticed, unknown and still you manage to win over a new friend or lover.

And most of all

Domo arigato gozaimasu, Sensei

*bows to Honorable Teacher*

The First Lesson hit Home.

[holyskeleton]

she said:

Per Mojo's suggestion I figured I'd do some people watching......50/50 chance he's aware and is ignoring me or he truly has no clue and might actually say hi back if walked over and said hi to him.

he said:

shit not another eye-f*cker stalking me... whats with the women these days?? i guess i'd have to skip the commercials and head home as soon as the shows over. the way shes staring at me like a shark is creeping me out.

no offense. and props to yourself that you looked at this from a different perspective.

but oh man, approach anxiety is a killer isnt it. even to a women. tsk tsk tsk.

[ValkyrieRose]

Ah...so you say that he knew, eh?

God..I musta looked kooky smiling at him.

Fine...I'll dial it back.

Chalk one up to experience.

"Self, do not smile at men staring at TV screens. They think you're a PEST."

[Neuromancer]

blow off holy skell, he knows not what he speaks. and dude, keep it positive.

I love your post btw Val, this is a perfect example of girl think. Truth is, he was either 1. not aware of your signals which is most common, 2. noticed and then got smacked by aproach anxiety, or 3. noticed and didn't interpret it as interest.

He was there to meet someone. No one I know goes out in public to sit alone, drink and watch tv.

you sent him standard IOIs, you smiled, you gave him a proximity alert, and you checked him out on the way by.

These are things that most untrained guys miss. Hell, I miss it and I know what to look for. Even if he did notice you looking, he probably didn't know how to approach. He was probably sitting silently hoping beyond all hope that you were interested in him and would come over and say hello. Women don't corner the market on those feelings.

You are right about one thing, you don't have to approach unless you want to. Women have that luxury, some guy will inevitably approach you. Just one thing, wouldn't it increase your odds of finding your target guy if you approach them instead of sending signals and hoping they approach? Of course, then you would have to run attract game on them. Fortunately there are resources for that, I'm pretty sure, somewhere on the net.

[Rhody]

blow off holy skell, he knows not what he speaks. and dude, keep it positive.

Yeah, I liked Val's post. It was coming from a good perspective. She had an epiphany. We should praise her, not knock her down.

I love your post btw Val, this is a perfect example of girl think. Truth is, he was either 1. not aware of your signals which is most common, 2. noticed and then got smacked by aproach anxiety, or 3. noticed and didn't interpret it as interest.

That's what I got out of it. We can learn from this post. That's one thing I learned early about pickup: women are attracted to men and actually show their interest. I dated a girl who told me that I was hot and women must hit on me all the time. I responded that women never hit on me. Since then, I've found out that there were several women who were interested in me and I didn't even know it. They don't show their interest in obvious ways (not obvious to men, anyway). Once you learn those ways, such as smiling and holding your gaze, it opens your eyes to how many opportunites pass you by when you're oblivious.

He was there to meet someone. No one I know goes out in public to sit alone, drink and watch tv.

I've done it in certain situations. For example, maybe he's from out of town and is staying at a nearby hotel. Maybe he had some time to kill before meeting someone and was hungry or thirsty.

you sent him standard IOIs, you smiled, you gave him a proximity alert, and you checked him out on the way by.

These are things that most untrained guys miss. Hell, I miss it and I know what to look for. Even if he did notice you looking, he probably didn't know how to approach. He was probably sitting silently hoping beyond all hope that you were interested in him and would come over and say hello. Women don't corner the market on those feelings.

Is this a very preliminary form of ASD? Or are women worried that if they approach a guy then that means they're desperate?

You are right about one thing, you don't have to approach unless you want to. Women have that luxury, some guy will inevitably approach you. Just one thing, wouldn't it increase your odds of finding your target guy if you approach them instead of sending signals and hoping they approach? Of course, then you would have to run attract game on them. Fortunately there are resources for that, I'm pretty sure, somewhere on the net.

It's funny, if a woman were to approach a guy, it would have to be indirect game. When I was visiting Chicago, I was walking around Michigan Ave. A college age girl walked up to me and asked if I was single. I said no even though I was. I was sure she was going to try to sell me something, tell me about a singles Web site, or lure me into the male sex slave trade. But why was I so worred? Maybe this cute, young girl just wanted to have a cup of coffee with me. But cute, young girls don't approach men. No, Val, it's definitely safer to ask the guy the time or comment on his watch and let him lead the conversation from there. If he can't lead the conversation from there, then do you really want him?

[ValkyrieRose]

Or are women worried that if they approach a guy then that means they're desperate?

Bingo. As you mentioned a woman directly approaching a guy reeks of neediness. Actually I have to worry about not smiling too much. Too much of even that can reek of neediness as Holyskeleton so gently pointed out.

I'm on the mailing list of several female dating gurus. Every last blasted one preaches you never, ever, ever in a million trillion years walk up and just start talking to a guy. They all insist doing something like that will send him running for the exit. The most women are allowed to do is what I did last night - smile or hang around near him and hope he picks up on your signals.

OTH I gotta wonder how much these old women's advice (why is it female dating gurus are usually in their 60's?) is appropriate these days.

Also...I suppose I'm intrigued by the idea of just seeing if I could win a stranger over just by being friendly. Hey - it worked with at least one guy. I won Sensei's friendship.

[Neuromancer]

I'm on the mailing list of several female dating gurus. Every last blasted one preaches you never, ever, ever in a million trillion years walk up and just start talking to a guy. They all insist doing something like that will send him running for the exit. The most women are allowed to do is what I did last night - smile or hang around near him and hope he picks up on your signals.

OTH I gotta wonder how much these old women's advice (why is it female dating gurus are usually in their 60's?) is appropriate these days.

That's the same type of AFC dating advice that most clueless dating "Gurus" say. There was a link to an article on match.com posted here some time ago where they said you can try to hold a girls hand on the first date several hours in if it's going well. Which as we here know is a bullet train to LJBF.

To open a guy, the best thing is to just walk up, pick an item and comment on it. that's the idea behind peacocking. Pick his shirt for instance, walk up and say "that's a cool shirt, where'd you get it." then let him talk. Have reasons for why such as a cousins birthday or whatever. Just take the pressure off of them leading the encounter without setting off the needy or slut alarms. Kino escalation should be the same as for guys.

Think about the girls who go out and compete about how many drinks they can get for free. What do they do? They come on strong, push/pull to get the buying temp up, ask for a drink, get it and walk away. Why does it work? They run attract game, look for IOIs, escalate kino and go in for the kill.

If you have ever been to a topless bar, you can see it happening over and over again. That's how dancers make their money. They approach, start a conversation, generate interest and then ask if they want a dance. If buying temp is right, the make $20 in 3 minutes. That's the thing I think is really funny about topless bars, the surface impression is that the men are using the women but it's really the other way around. The guys are the wounded fish, the booze is the chum and the girls are the sharks swimming through circling in for the kill.

I should write an ebook "A Pickup Artists Declassified Dating Survival Guide for Women"

[ValkyrieRose]

Think about the girls who go out and compete about how many drinks they can get for free. What do they do? They come on strong, push/pull to get the buying temp up, ask for a drink, get it and walk away. Why does it work? They run attract game, look for IOIs, escalate kino and go in for the kill.

I've never seen anything like what you describe. But then...I've seldom gone to bars or clubs.

I haven't cruised bars and clubs since I was 24 or so. And even then I never felt all that comfortable in them. Though now at Mojo's suggestion I suppose I need to start just so I can sit back and see everything you both say goes on.

I wouldn't know how to run an attract game if it hit me like a 2x4.

[Finesse]

you do. its hardwired into you.

[ValkyrieRose]

I should write an ebook "A Pickup Artists Declassified Dating Survival Guide for Women"

Hah!

I've considered doing the same thing once I master all this stuff. I'm tired of seeing B.S. advice from old ladies on how to generate a man's interest.