Day Game: FR 09/02/2010

[Guest]

First, I want to make a comment about why I am doing this. It is mainly for you guys to give me tips on where I could have done better, and what I did okay. Also it's for me to have a place to measure myself. I can't know if I am growing without having a place to look back to.

I met this girl at a meetup group. She is the leader of the group but is very shy and quite. 25, HB6. She's cool, and generally career minded, which I like. Anyway, we've hung out a few times as part of a group but I had not really approached her. So I decided to try something direct just to give me an opprotunity to get to know her better and see if there was chemistry.

So here is the text series that led to the breakfast meeting.

Me: (9:53PM) Stef..... are you up for Breakfast tomorrow?
Her: (9:55PM) Sure Thing!
Me: (9:56PM)Ok..call u around 9a and figure out where to go.
Her: (9:59PM) Eek, kind of wanted to sleep in tomorrow....can you make it a little later? Please? :)
Me: (10:00PM) Gah! I Guess. :) ..10:30?
Her: (10:25PM) Perfect! ttyt..sleep well
Me: No response......

The next morning i called her around 10:30 and we decided on iHop for breakfast. We both got there close to lunch. Me at around 11:15 and her shortly there after (5 mins or so?)

Now I am not sure if there was any way to generate attraction in the text exchange, if there was or if there are suggestions, clue me in please.

We talked back and forth, and I don't really remember the context of the situation, just boring chit chat.. Her body language was really closed off. Crossed arms, crossed legs, etc.. So I started mirroring her, and eventually got rapport with her. Our movements started to sync up. There was one moment when I reached for my drink and took a drink and a second later she did the same, then I started uncrossing my arms, openning my body language up and she did the same.. This is a technique I learned in sales but that seems to really translate well with women.

Afterwards, we went and fed the geese at a local park and then headed for some frozen yogurt.

I need to bring a voice recorder or do the camera thing like Grimm because I simply don't remember what we talked about. I had a good time, and I know that she is available and that she also had a good time, but Im kinda stuck here.

One thing I do remember is that she has told me repeatedly that I remind her of her ex-boyfriend that she broke up with when she moved here. It was a geographic thing, not a relationship thing, so I think that is good, I just am not sure how to capitalize on it.

[Guest]

I think it sounds like you did well. First of all, I love that you just straight-up asked her to go to breakfast with you without trying to dilly-dally your way around to the point. The fact that you forgot what you were talking about means it was a good, natural conversation.

You're a salesman, like me.

So here's what I would advise. Sales is great for pickup, mainly because you learn to read people, vibe with people, and go for the kill when you see an opening. It's a people-centered job, and yet it's not waiting tables: you have a goal in mind... to close. So you get that killer instinct as well.

Here's where sales sucks. In sales, you have to kiss your customer's ass. With some customers, you have to lead them and be the alpha, in other cases (most), their happiness comes before yours.

Pickup is not this way.

So from one salesman to another, I'd say be really careful with trying to please her too much, and be sure you're always sticking up for yourself.

Example: If she asks you to schedule breakfast a little later because she wants to sleep in... agree, but only if she agrees to do something of equal value for you in return. "sure, but only if you xyz"

If she wants to talk about her ex, that's another case where you're treading on thin ice... I don't know the circumstances but you risk losing your place as her suitor.

Example from my life: In my video from Chicago - I am talking to the girl Sonya and she starts telling me about some married guy who she was 'talking to.' I nip it in the bud, saying "why are you telling some guy, who's here talking to you, who thinks you're cute, about another guy you were talking to?" Another example, while I was number closing her, she says "I'm engaged" to which I say "STOP." Which stops her in her tracks... "Install yourself in my phone." And I hand her the phone. And she does.

The reason I do this is not to be an asshole. It's because time and experience have shown me the hard way that if you let a girl talk about her ex or other guys she's seeing, then you're putting YOUR intentions (which are to fuck her)...second, and her needs first. And that doesn't end as well for you.

Anyway, that's my advice. I think you did awesome, and I bet you'll have another date with this little lady.

[Guest]

Actually, I'm an IT guy in an odd sector of the IT industry (Cable & Satellite TV). I've always thought I could do well in sales, but I have never done it full time. I've done it for my own small businesses occasionally when I have needed extra money. (web design and stuff like that ) My friend who is a stock broker has to sell all the time. He tells me that I have the personality but that I speak to technically.

I've read a ton of books over the years on management, body language, and influence. Those subjects have always fascinated me. Anyway, Thanks for the feedback I think I'm going to kinda do what you did and just make a journal here. Hopefully, it will pay off and I will get good feedback and start to pull more.

[Guest]

its hard to give advice as you didnt give much information or description of the interaction, but overall, i think you did well.

i think it was good that you were upfront and just asked her out. i liked that. but try experimenting with being a little more assertive.

instead of saying: "stef...are you up to breakfast tomorrow?"
id say: "stef, i'm taking you to breakfast tomorrow." she'll object if she doesnt want to go, or make some lame excuse. think thats too forward? you can soften it a bit and say: "stef, im taking you to breakfast tomorrow. you game?" or something like that...

[Guest]

You have attraction... for now.

Move past the rest of "game" and close.

The way I would do it is lead. The way I would lead is this. Don't bump your schedule... make her contour to you.

When you make a move you need to stand fast that it was the right move. If not can you really call yourself a man?

Men make decisions and then stick by them. You made a decision for breakfast at 9.. she wanted brunch, you ended up with lunch and the bottom line is you complied. To me that was a shit test you failed.

My next move would be more commanding. Stop with the high school date shit and handle logistics. In ya'lls minds, she's already there, you are not. There being a metaphor for ready for more, sex, foreplay, etc... It doesn't matter what she says, it matters what she does.

[Guest]

Just read Grimm and Prod's posts. I would have to agree. Be more assertive.

[Guest]

I'm not sure if the breakfast thing was a big deal, but Grimm and Prod are right. If you make a statement about yourself, she can't object or argue. So you can say, "I want to have breakfast with you tomorrow." This isn't as alpha as Prodigy's example, but it is a truth that cannot be argued with.

First she said "sure thing" to breakfast and then she said she wanted to sleep in. I would have called her on that. I would have said something like, "if you don't want to do breakfast, that's cool. We can find some other way to get together. What do you propose?" Now you got her working on making a date with you. I have found that sometimes it's better to put it in her hands than to play the game of offering something and having her shoot it down over and over.

It seemed like a nice, pleasant date. It doesn't seem like game though. Not that that's a bad thing. AFCs get laid all the time. I'm just wondering if you did any kino, made any SOIs, did any role playing, etc. This is a pickup site. I'd like to see some technical details.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=rhody]It seemed like a nice, pleasant date. It doesn't seem like game though. Not that that's a bad thing. AFCs get laid all the time. I'm just wondering if you did any kino, made any SOIs, did any role playing, etc. This is a pickup site. I'd like to see some technical details. [/QUOTE]

Two things with this, I have this idea in my mind that Pickup and Seduction are two different things. I have two kids, and I'm done with the whole procreation thing. Don't get me wrong, I love sex, it's just not the end all-be all anymore for me. I see Pickup as the tools you use to get the date, and seduction as the tools you use to get into bed. Case and point, You can have a pickup without seduction, but you will probably be LJBFed. Pickup and Seduction are often seem married together because of their relation to each other and demographic of the audience interested in the topic, however, I do not think that they are married. I think they are two mutually exclusive ideas.

Second, AFC gaming is still a valid form of game, and has it's place given a situation. As does escalation ladder, MM, NLP, etc.. However, your point is well taken. I'm going to go get one of those pen voice recorders and try to record the conversation, that will help.

So I did not follow the typical escalation ladder. In fact physical escalation is really difficult for me to do. -I- feel uncomfortable with it. I don't like to touch other people out of the blue and I really don't like the be touched accept by someone I know really well. From about 18" on in, is personal space, and I hate it when people invade my personal space. The logic here is why do I do to someone else something that I hate being done to me.

Now, that said, I know that Alpha males touch all the time, and that this is something beta about me that I am going to have to learn to cope with. So I decided to start small in this area. On the date, I touched her hands and arms a few times, I touched her back and shoulders quite a few times. I thought about doing the whisper thing, but didn't really see an opportunity to do it that I could explain away on the environment, and I didn't want to come off creepy.

I'm not sure what SOI's are? Signs of Interest like IOI and IOD? I'm not sure what you mean by roleplaying? Creating a false reality and describing it to her?

In the preceding post, you guys all give advice about being more assertive. I think I can implement the idea of if I give her something, she has to give me something. This I could take and use.

[QUOTE=finesse]
Men make decisions and then stick by them. You made a decision for breakfast at 9.. she wanted brunch, you ended up with lunch and the bottom line is you complied. To me that was a shit test you failed. [/QUOTE]

So because I compromised with the time, I failed a shit test. I can see this. However, I think showing the ability to compromise is important, I can see your point that this wasn't a compromise, this was a cave-in. Maybe, I should have said, " Sure lunch is fine, but if we do that, then you have to XX" Or something along those lines. I need to get something back if I decide to give on my original decision.

[Guest]

Traxxus, you have many valid points and I think you did well. I think at some point in the interaction, you need to have a SOI (statement of interest). Make your intent clear, that way, you won't be ljbf'ed. When guys get ljbf'ed, more than likely they didn't make it clear that they wanted sex (or a relationship) instead of being just friends. being aggressive and more assertive, in a way commnicates that, but escalation is still necessary.

I don't know what you want from her, but you set a bf or friend frame simply by setting that type of date. It didn't help that the activities screamed bf...if you want a true bf/gf relationship, than that's ok as long as you continue to run game to maintain her interest.

I didn't interpret the time thing as a shit test, but it prob was since you complied and hung out on HER terms. You basically just gave her hand in the relationship. What I wouldve done is said:

her: eek, I wanted to sleep in....let's make it later?
Pua: i can't, I have lunch plans with my friend Stacy. But drinks at 10pm at bar xyz (or some other day 2 idea) will work for me.
Her: ok

that response shows that you're alpha because you didn't supplicate to her needs, yet still compromised and workked out a way to meet up...It also shows that youre a busy person, you have a life and are preselected...

I do believe that having the ability to compromise is imperative in making a relationship work, I just think you did it waaay to early here...