Manufacturing a new method...

[Alphagame]

Friday night, I called up my D2 around 6:45, went to VM and never heard anything from her. Another F'ing flake. I honestly didn't see this one coming...not even a little bit. Totally surprised. I'm guessing she must have gotten back together with her husband because this chick was chasing me really hard for nearly a month. It was like "the game" was reversed with this one.

Anyway, Friday night I was feeling really down. Cloudy, overcast skies with winter drizzle does that to me anyway, combined with my 2nd "day of" flake for the week, I was really feeling sad for myself.

So I meet a friend of mine in a local pub. Normally, the place is a TOTAL pickle jar, but this night, it was a decently target rich place.

So anyway, I walk in and greet my friend and I'm getting eyes from a 7. She does the proximity IOI thing and I open her up. I start running my game on her and then I realize her husband is in the back of the bar shooting pool, getting jealous. That's not the kind of game I want to run, really, so I ended my game immediately and asked her for some candid female advice.

I explained that I don't have friends who are women or I'd ask them. Straight guys don't have female friends...said with confidence, they always believe this. (In fact I've avoided LJBF several times with this combined with kino escalation, confidence and strong eye contact!) Anyway, I just tell this chick I'm totally confused...women like me, they're attracted to me...she agrees with this. She tells me I'm hot, and not to brag, but I get this a lot from women. So anyway, I started explaining how women will make out with me in bars, give me their numbers and never answer when I call. Or they'll agree to go out with me and then the day of they cancel or just stop returning phone calls. I ask her if women could possibly be intimidated by me, and they're so afraid of making a bad impression that they're just chickening out. She thinks this could be the issue. She says they're probably embarassed because they've already made out with me. She recommends I don't kiss them the day I meet them. I explained that I just broke with my girlfriend 3 weeks ago and that I really wanted to find a new girlfriend. I'm not interested in a one night lay. We talked for 20 to 30 minutes, I'd guess.

Then she started playing match maker. She's dragging women from all over the bar that she knows and introducing them to me. Next thing I know, I'm more or less taking my pick between a 6.5 blonde, 22 years old and an 8 blonde, 26 years old. I started playing the jealousy plot line between the two of them. Then the 22 year old tells me she's bi...I lose all interest immediately. I refocus on the 26 year old and she mentions a boyfriend. I run my normal boyfriend shit-test response and she tells me her BF is the guy she's sitting next to...an acquaintence of mine. It was a bullshit test, I am certain. But I could tell he's totally smitten with this girl, she's totally out of his league, but I see him in this place all the time and I don't want to destroy this guy, so, I called it "bro's before ho's" and ended up going home alone. I mean, if I were in a place where I'd never see him again, I would have plowed on, but I will definitely see this guy again, and we're on a first name basis.

But the whole "WTF am I doing wrong with women?" thing seemed to be a really good opener. And, as for me, I'm not lying when I say I want a girlfriend...what I'm not fully disclosing is that I don't want A girlfriend, but several girlfriends AND I want the option of being able to make my target a girlfriend. So it's not a total BS "line". I'll definitely be experimenting with this one again.

[playercool]

Alright so I just tried a little experiment. I met a girl last night and number closed. Texted her today and finally got to the point of when are we going to hang out. She says I can't tomorrow but after that my schedule is wide open. So we basically set up a D2 for Tuesday. Great np this is in the bag and I should let it go.

Well I make some more chit chat to see what she is getting into this evening. Blah blah she is staying home doing nothing. Alright so I tell her well then why don't you come over and hang out then. That was about 30 minutes ago and I haven't gotten a text back.

So my question to you Alphagame is do you think you might be acting TOO NEEDY with these women? I was about 95% sure the result above would occur. Even if I would have asked her to go do something in public I think the same outcome would have happened.

What I like to do is text with some small talk and get a little convo going on. Then after a few texts back and forth let the convo trail off for several hours. Then if I feel like it I will start the text convo going again later in the day. I always keep it simple and give her as much shit as possible. Eventually this is escalated into some sort of date/meeting. Very little phone game if any is used until the day we hang out. This is all assuming her phone receives text.

How are you approaching these girls via phone game? For example if I wouldn't have tried to get her to hang this evening I would have waited until Tuesday to text her again. I will wait until Tuesday to text her again now that I sorta screwed it up. This will hopefully make her see I am not needy.

Compare your phone game to mine. I am curious as to how you are approaching this. I have a feeling it might be why you are having problems. Clearly you are a good looking guy and are having very good success in opening sets and landing numbers. We need to get to the root of the problem so you can start having crazy success.

[Alphagame]

I had honestly been assuming that being honest about my problems with women would a.) make me look UN=pre-selected (ie desperate) and b.) make me look needy.

But it had a great result. There's no better way to meet a woman than through social circle. When you're introduced to a chick from her friend, that's what social circle is all about. I'll definitely be trying this one again. If I weren't a really good looking guy, I don't think this "method" would work very well.

Maybe if another PUA were to call my phone game dead ends and ask for a debriefing with them, I could get some real insights into my problems. Maybe I should try this myself...like leave a VM..."Hey it's XXXX, I can see you aren't interested in seeing me again, that's ok, we should just be friends, but if you could help me out, I've got some questions I'd REALLY like to ask you". As it is now, I'm clueless.

Yes, finding out that your target is not doing anything tonight and trying to pounce on the opportunity is gonna come across as needy if you haven't even been on your first D2 yet. My guess is you'll never hear from her again or you're gonna get the LJBF speech. Good luck to you on that one. Just a gut feeling based on what you said.

You know, women are impossible. They all want an exclusive long term relationship but if a guy comes across as needy (ie, demonstrating early on that he wants exactly that), they're repulsed.

Normally, if I number close, I wait at least a full day or two before I initiate contact, so I doubt they're viewing me as needy. By waiting, it's a validation mind fuck. I remember once, this chick at Black Finn's on a Monday night last fall...I ran game on her and made out with her that night. I had her walk me out to the valet stand to get my car...she took my number and I was CERTAIN I'd hear from her again. Of course, nothing. But I was constantly checking my phone for missed calls and text messages for the next few days. When you wait a few days before you initiate contact, it just makes her relish your call that much more when you finally make it. She's been hoping for days that she'd get that validation and now she's finally got it. Not sure if it makes her more or less likely to answer, but my theory is that it helps more than it hurts. That's my theory for what it's worth.

[Vector]

I had honestly been assuming that being honest about my problems with women would a.) make me look UN=pre-selected (ie desperate) and b.) make me look needy.

But it had a great result. ...

I think admitting ineptness with women makes you "safe" (similar to how gay men are "safe") and women will open up immediately. But it may be negative in the longer term because you are stuck in a role that is basically castrated and subordinate.

You could ask basically the same question, but instead of having a frame of "I don't understand," instead try "I understand, but it's frustrating, why do women have to send complicated signals?"

I would say there are other things that can get women to open up really well. Besides confusion with women. Such as candor, showing some vulnerability, depth of character, or showing emotion.

You know, women are impossible. They all want an exclusive long term relationship but if a guy comes across as needy (ie, demonstrating early on that he wants exactly that), they're repulsed.

I know it sounds contradictory, but it's really not. I think people generally assume that everyone (men and women) want an exclusive long term relationship. And if you say you want it, or ask for it too soon, then it implies that you want it really badly and yes, women will freak out.

[playercool]

2 minutes after I posted the above message she texts me saying not tonight but lets definately hang out this week. I thought for sure it was over as well but well see. It worked out well tho because some other girl I met Saturday night called me up came over and got naked...

I'm kinda wondering something...go along with me on this crazy theory...Alright so you are a good looking guy. For argument we will call you an 8. In my theory this means most HB8's and lower find you attractive. You have a good shot at them just based on looks. You can open them with ease just based on looks. If you have any game at all you will have a great chance of success. So for this theory you don't really need to run much MM on these girls. Sure some bantor and such is always a good idea but negs are to be at a maximum 1 or zero. With these girls you should escalate extremely quick. Almost caveman if you will but to a much less extreme. Now for HB8.5 and up your game will flip to the standard MM.

You should record your night out. I bet you would learn a lot from listening to this. It just baffles me...I mean it sounds like you have pretty good game. It sounds like you can keep a conversation going very well. Hrmm everytime I think about a guy who can keep a convo going well I think of my friend who never escalates and always gets LJBF. I am just looking back at my success and I never keep a convo going. I would call my convo extreme bantor. Now sure on D2 and the such I have a normal conversation but when out it is always bantor.

And, as for me, I'm not lying when I say I want a girlfriend...what I'm not fully disclosing is that I don't want A girlfriend, but several girlfriends

I always tell the girls I don't want a relationship. For some odd reason this works extremely well.

Do you use any particular method when you sarge?

"WTF am I doing wrong with women?" thing seemed to be a really good opener

I would say this is a great opener if you want to instantly be LJBFed. You should change your opener to...are you ready...HI. I bet you would have way better success just using those two letters.

Maybe I should try this myself...like leave a VM..."Hey it's XXXX, I can see you aren't interested in seeing me again, that's ok, we should just be friends, but if you could help me out, I've got some questions I'd REALLY like to ask you". As it is now, I'm clueless.

Your a braver guy then me if you do this. But if you have the mindset of what do you have to lose then go for it. Who knows it might open one of them up again.