How do I show disinterest?

[Bull Run]

I was going to respond to UL in his 'online girl won't meet until she's comfortable at school' thread. But, I think this post deserves its own thread...


[QUOTE=Urban Legend;32886]The main thing I don't understand is how do I show disinterest in a hb the same way I am with this ug and still show enough interest at the same time to get her? Like if I act completely disinterested won't it push her away?[/QUOTE]


Well, I think that's pretty simple. Go back and write down the text thread you and the ug have had together. Once you re-read in its entirety, you should begin to see certain themes that run throughout the text. You should be able to see the kind of tone you've taken with her. My guess is that you routinely tease her, challenge her, push her away, bring her back in when you feel as if you've been too mean, and, generally, are aloof.

Understand that you are NOT acting disinterested. Instead, you are acting outcome independent. There is a huge difference in the results between acting disinterested and outcome independent, even if the difference between the two is VERY subtle.

The difference IS indifference.

When I say indifferent, I don't mean indifferent to her. I just mean indifferent to how things turn out with her. My theory has always been that when you want something and show the world that you want said thing, then you tend to get in your head too much when you pursue it. People tend to over-think and over-analyze situations when they have a huge vested interest in how said situation turns out. And, when you get too emotional or think too much then you tend to fuck things up.

The best investors in the world do not get emotionally attached to their money (they depersonalize what money means to them so they can think and act logically). The greatest business men never attach themselves emotionally to a specific venture or idea (again, they depersonalize their business activities so they can remain objective). The same holds true with PU.

Depersonalize the outcome of an interaction with a girl. I understand that an HB 1 and an HB 10 appear to be worlds different. But, only if you approach with the frame that you are trying to fuck one of them. If you add more context to that situation when you approach or interact, then the difference between the two sort of disappears. Instead of thinking that you're approaching an HB 10 that you hope to fuck...think of it like this: I'm approaching a girl that may or may not be cool. Period. That's it. Don't think about trying to fuck her. Don't think you have to demonstrate value. Don't think that you have to impress her. Just be.

The reality of things is that very few of the women I've approached in my lifetime were worth two shits as a person. Sure, they may have been hot. Sure, I may have wanted to fuck them (which, honestly I want to fuck every attractive woman in the world so it's not an exclusive club). But, there is so much more to a woman besides what she looks like. I can't tell you how many hot chicks that I've meet only to learn that they were superficial, pretentious, stupid, boring, sucked in the sack, or all of the above. Experience has taught me that there is much, much more to a woman than how she looks. Sure, looks are hugely important to men...but, understand that there is so much more that we all should be requiring from women.

One of the fundamental flaws of our community and the game is that we feel as if we are constantly chasing women. That when we start talking to a girl, it is up to us to prove to her that we are worthy of her. As if she is some kind of judge and she is going to tell us that our score is good enough for her. In truth, it's not this way at all.

Sure, we are the first to approach. Sure, we are the aggressors. Sure, we generally approach based on how she looks. These three dynamics make us appear as if we are constantly in pursuit of them. But, reality and perception are almost never the same thing.

Women pursue us just as much, IF NOT MORE SO, than we pursue them. The difference is that women are much, much more subtle about their pursuit. And, this is the dynamic that you need to truly internalize. When you approach a woman, ANY WOMAN, understand that you don't know them, they don't know you. So, by approaching all you have done is to create a platform from which you both can determine if the other has what it takes for you to be interested. That's it. Period. There truly is nothing more to that interaction UNTIL either one has decided that they like the other. The key for you, assuming you're running indirect game (which is exactly what we're talking about), is to NEVER tip your hand until you pick up on the subtle IOIs that she will throw your way. Remember, that when a woman makes up her mind that she likes you she's going to be very aggressive towards you, but the catch is that she's going to be subtle. The reason she does this is because women, by nature, are generally passive aggressive. Society has trained them to be pursued, not to pursue. They are testing your social IQ by being subtle about their intentions. And, IMO, they lack the self-esteem to be the one that goes out on a limb in an obvious way.

What you need to do is totally reframe how you walk into an interaction with a woman. You need to disconnect yourself from the outcome (indifference is the difference). You need to understand that women are just women...the way they look can make them intimidating but that is not what defines them as 'quality.' You need to understand that you are buying her, just as you are selling yourself to her...and, she is doing the same. You need to watch for the signs (real ones like change in tonality, change in body position towards you, eye contact, curiosity about you (i.e. tons of questions), and the grand daddy of them all...the touch, if she touches you first you are in), and when you feel as if you've gotten enough then you can show your intent. But, the key is to make her feel as if she likes you more than you like her. Women want to earn your affection. So, push and pull her. Tease her like you would a little sister. Project the idea that you will not put her on a pedestal, by doing so you are making it known that you demand respect from her. And, let's face it. That's what it ALL comes down to...if you want the girl, you've got to make sure that she respects you.

[Guest]

many valid points BR.

i nominate this for "best of" as the message of being outcome independent is extremely important to success. i am still trying to train myself to be outcome independent, but 24 years of programming is hard to rewire....

[Guest]

Wow. Another great post by BR. Actually excellent post is more like it.


Mods, I also vote for Best of the Forum(I would also recommend a name change if it is put there though lol).
Great post BR. Helped a lot man :)

[Bull Run]

[QUOTE=UncleHOwie;35714]You guys got any tips on pictures for dating profiles?[/QUOTE]

I think if done right, online game can be your bestfriend, it's literally working for you 100% of the time. Lion's right, there are a ton of hotties on the net, and while it's true that they get hit up a lot by men, it's not true that they don't at least open and look at every profile that they see. I can't remember a girl that I ever messaged that didn't at least look at my profile.

There are five aspects to online game:

-Pictures
-Written profile
-Opener
-Close
-Maintenance

Pictures

Make sure to have a lot of pictures on your profile. The point is to show her how much fun you are through the pics...women are humans, humans are visual creatures, therefore it holds that your pics are probably the MOST important thing in the profile (understand that you still have to follow up with a great profile, but the pics get your foot in the door).

Here's what I have on my profile:

-Main pic that only has me and is a clear shot of what I look like. I don't look directly at the camera in my pic (I read a study that showed that guys that don't look directly at the camera in their pics are 30% more likely to get a response...the theory is that women like assholes/indifference in real life and that carries into the Internet...I've found that it does make a difference, albeit slight)
-Pic further in the distance that shows, clearly, what your body type looks like (again, look away from the camera)
-Fun pics of you alone and with your friends/buddies. I have a handful of pictures with me doing fun things with my friends, one of me and Smirks on a tiny carousel riding 2ft tall horses. I have another from a photo shoot I did of me hanging from a tree wearing a St Pattys Day hat and holding a kickball (it was for a kickball league calendar), and one of me riding a mechancial bull.
-Then, other random pics of me doing random things. Again, try to make sure they're pics where you're not looking directly at the camera.

I get comments on my pics all of the time. The goal is for you women to look at your profile pics and think, "wow, this guy has a fun life..."

Written Profile

First, check out other guys' profiles to see how they put them together and what they said. Then, do the opposite. Most guys create a profile where they basically provide women with a very specific, detailed life resume. They're xx age, they're name is xyz, they do [blank] for a living, they live in [blank] part of town. For fun, they enjoy doing this and that...etc, etc, etc. For the love God, do not do this. The profile is about sparking attraction, not creating comfort. When you spark attraction in real life, do you ever talk about serious shit? No, you don't.

Be general, generic, and congruent to your personality. In my profile, I come across as a fun, exciting, intelligent, creative guy. So, my pics fit that dynamic as do my words.

Instead of saying I'm an Asset Manager for apartment complexes, I say: "I'm a Bic Disposable Lighter Repairman...it's a growth industry"

Instead of saying that I enjoy working out, I say: "I like to work out, it’s important to me. If I don’t work out I’ll get old and fat and ugly faster. Not good." (stolen from David D.)

Instead of rattling off the places I like to go, I say: "I'm a proficient dive bar explorer and pride myself on having an uncanny ability to find those cool, unknown places that I never tell anyone about because I discovered it..."

My profile generally reads like a hodgepodge of funny anecdotes mixed in with some of my quirks. I say:

"I eat my veggies first"
"I know who will be Santa next Christmas"
"Currently, alcohol is my Muse, but I'm currently seeking applications for a replacement"

Instead of saying I'm looking for this, that, and everything else in a woman I say:

"If you're more roller derby than figure skating, more Betty Paige than Marilyn Monroe, sexy instead of hot, an individual instead of special, and found yourself nodding enthusiastically while laughing aloud while you read this then you owe it yourself to contact me."

The truth is that my profile has very little definitive, hard evidence of who I am. But, it's not what you say you are that makes you you. When you look at my profile you can tell a few different things:

-I'm different, there literally are no profiles like mine
-I'm creative
-I'm confident enough to take a risk and do something different
-I'm less concerned about impressing you with the facts of my life than I am with impressing you with the feel of my life
-I'm funny
-I'm intelligent (make sure your grammar and spelling are tip top and make sure your sentence construction sounds intelligent)
-I'm successful (income questions bear that out...even if most lie about it)
-I'm warm and approachable

Just as when you first approach a girl in real life, you want them to walk away with an idea of the fun and excitement that is your life. The details will work be uncovered over time.

Opener

This was the hardest thing for me to learn. But, it has to be short, different, and even boarder line ballsy. To learn exactly what not to do, I created a shill. I constructed a profile of a HB8 (got the pics off of Hot or Not Hot.com and the profile from a girl that lived somewhere out West). Then, I sat back and waited. Once you see what other guys say to girls, you'll understand what you should say.

I've heard guys say that you should tease her in your opener, I do not recommend doing this. There's no context to the neg so it's really, really dickish. But, what you do want is for your opener to push the envelope enough so that there are a few girls every now and again that respond with: "really?" or "are you being serious?"

It also has to have a hook or a question. Something they can grab on so that you can either continue with the opener or so they have something to start their email with and then change the subject.

I'd give you hard examples, but I worked uber hard to create just 2 or 3 that actually have a fairly high response rate (70 - 80%), so I'm going to keep them to myself.

Close

I usually only perform 2 or 3 email volleys before I ask them for their number. Sometimes, some women just skip past that and offer to get together for drinks. Obviously this works best for you. I always ask for the number so that I have some type of investment on her part. Once I get the number, I'll send a text...almost always I send: "Well, you showed me yours so I'll show you mine 214.xxx.xxxx" Then we have a few volleys, then I tell her that I'm going to call her later. Yes, I've found that calling the Internet girl increases the probability of getting a face to face meeting. It also allows you to build comfort with her. I'm not a phone guy, but it is highly effective with Internet girls. Plus anyways, you want her to be excited and feel comfortable with you on the first day2 because it increases your chances for an f-close astronomically (and, f-closes on the first day2 with a girl of the net is not out of the realm of reality, it happens all the time).

Maintenance

Change something very, very minor about your profile everyday. Omit a sentenece, add a sentence, whatever. When the profile is edited it usually ends up going back to the top of the search list...that's what you want, you want to be sitting at or near the top so she can find you easily.

I've run online game for a good 10 years and it's changed a ton over that time. My success rate was always mediocre, at best, until I overhauled everything with the above suggestions. Since then I average anywhere from 10 - 15 views a day, 2 - 3 contacts a day (depending on the day, weekdays are a lot higher, Sundays are pretty high as well), and if I'm really diligent, you can easily set up a couple day2s a week with attractive women (understand that since your profile is going to be awesome that you're going to get A LOT of ugs dropping you a line, but you'll also get some hotties, and the hotties that YOU contact will be much more likely to respond to you).

[Bull Run]

***reserved for my write-up***