"Talking down" to people?

[Guest]

It has been pointed out to me that my posts are coming across somewhat abrasive to put it mildly.

I am opinionated. It?s my personality. I am not going to change because I like that about myself and in other people as long as it?s sincere and not an attempt to belittle someone or hurt their feelings.

I am a good person and very genuine. I do not like to have to say that because I?d rather you decide that for yourself, but since some of you are jumping to conclusions I will present you with the possibility that you should open your mind. I think most chat rooms/communities/forums end up being a place where people simply reduce communication to ?good morning,? ?how are you today,? ?how is your family? and responses like, ?oh, that?s great,? ?you?re amazing,? ?wonderful story?? Let?s pat each other on the back in our good ole boys club and have our pack of wolves circle any new intruder that doesn?t wear the same coat of fur.

I have no desire to break down anyone?s confidence. I am a firm believer in support and encouragement and try to offer that but I also believe in challenging myself and others. I have successfully coached junior high track, turning around a losing team (someone else coached) from the previous year into the second best team in the district the following year and it was partly through building confidence and encouragement, but mostly it was from pushing those kids to work harder than they ever had before in their life. I pushed them far beyond what they believed their limits were, but I also did everything myself that I asked them to do. I have bettered the lives of people around me in all aspects of my life.

I pride myself on being honest, sincere, extremely loyal and righteous in life. I will say that I am going to have to learn to let go of some of that and learn to play the game. Previously in life I knew there was a game, but I thought it was dishonest to participate in it. Now I am realizing that parts of it may be dishonest, but if it?s what a woman wants then maybe it?s okay to be dishonest like telling a woman that is fat that she is not fat. Yes, it?s a lie, but it?s to make her life better.

I?m disappointed that some of you were not strong enough to debate my opinions without letting it be personal because I never intended anything I said as a personal attack. There were a few of you that did accept my opinion but also suggested I consider some aspects of how I presented it and I respect that.

If any of you simply want people to stroke your ego or have non-opinionated conversations don?t look toward me 

Another example: I once posted on a stock market message board in disagreement with 95% of the people posting there. I posted the stock they bought was a scam and my reason why I believed it. Of course they did not want to hear that. They wanted to be praised and encouraged and patted on the back for their decision. I was banned on three different IDs by the admin, had my life threatened, called names and generally hated by the masses but I stuck by my guns until I was finally worn down by the resistance. The stock soon went completely under and some lost their life savings and the savings of friends and relatives that they had convinced to participate. I guess what I am trying to say is don?t get so caught up in the camaraderie of this microcosm that you are not open to opinions that could offer improvement. At least be willing to consider others opinions ,no matter how unwanted or abrasive they are, or you can never grow or truly be aware of the wisdom the world has to offer, i.e. take off the blinders long enough to consider contrary opinions, reason through them and then decide.

I am totally open to someone debating my opinion. Just say, ?dude, I think you?re wrong and this is why,? or ?hey, you?re missing something.? Just don?t allude to me being a ?tool? or having ?negative hostility? because you will be wrong. I am completely confident in saying that.

You may find me to be a good wingman and friend if you take the time to get to know me rather than expecting me to conform to your values and personality. The last time I checked I was living in a free country and I know for fact I have not been mean to anyone on this board. If you think I have you should reread everything I have written and reconsider that maybe I simply was speaking my mind openly and honestly rather than just mindlessly patting everyone on the back.

[Guest]

It comes down to this, bro. You don't know us yet...and we don't know you yet.

Without knowing you, we have no clue about any of the things you stated about yourself above. This is where social calibration comes in. You cannot assume everyone will "get you" or know where you are coming from. At the same time, you won't just "get me" and know where I come from. You'll learn to turn it up, or turn it down when necessary. I'm not saying you should change who you are, but if you were an S&M fanatic...would you bust out the Dungeon, leather, ball-gag and whip RIGHT when you meet a girl? Probably not.

Start out with a bit of spanking...then work your way up.

That was probably the worst analogy I could have given, but SOMEONE here will get it!

You make a intro post stating how you're new to the Game and what not, and then start throwing your advice at people in a abrasive/matter-of-fact way...it won't be taken lightly. There are many different approaches to this game of ours, yours might be more direct...and JonnyPUA might have a more subtle-sneaky-sniper type game. Once you meet a few different people w/ a few different styles you'll see what I mean. In the mean time, don't get worked up over this...read up...ask questions...offer up OPINIONS...and have a good ol' time.

Now, I just worked a 12 hour night shift and I'm tired as fuck. G'nite.

[Guest]

[quote="Kit"]It has been pointed out to me that my posts are coming across somewhat abrasive to put it mildly.

I am opinionated. It?s my personality. I am not going to change because I like that about myself and in other people as long as it?s sincere and not an attempt to belittle someone or hurt their feelings.

I am a good person and very genuine. I do not like to have to say that because I?d rather you decide that for yourself, but since some of you are jumping to conclusions I will present you with the possibility that you should open your mind.

If any of you simply want people to stroke your ego or have non-opinionated conversations don?t look toward me [/quote]

Kit, I think it comes down to delivery. I know most people on this board welcome constructive criticism and no one has a reasonable expectation that everyone will agree with them.

However, you can be right and yet still be wrong. Hypothetically, if you voiced your concerns about the stock on your other message board in a constructive way vs. an antagonistic way, I highly doubt that they would have banned you 3 times.

If you really are a guy who wants to help others, you should learn to share your ideas in a constructive way. You can be direct yet polite at the same time.

Let's take the example you brought up of calling a girl fat. It is very rude obviously. How is she going to react by you being rude? In a defensive manner. Even if you are telling her this to better herself and are absolutely right, your delivery is not going to get the message across. Therefore you are ultimately wrong.

Now, assuming this is someone you know and care about who asks you if she is overweight. You could easily get the same message across by saying "honey, I have been feeling unhealthy lately. I am sure you have been too. Let's start focusing on eating better and working out. If we do these things together, we can help each other stay committed to it." This is a way of letting her know that you think she needs to eat better and work out in a positive way but that you also care. Which way do you think will best get the message across so that she will accept it?

Let's go back to your stock example again. You may have done a better job of warning people if you were polite vs. antagonistic. Since you weren't, you got banned and no one benefited from your insight.

We all have sticking points. Communicating effectively may be one of yours.

Also, without anyone knowing you, no one is calibrated to your personality.

[Guest]

[quote="Smirks"]Start out with a bit of spanking...then work your way up.
[/quote]

stolen.

[Guest]

[quote="Smirks"]It comes down to this, bro. You don't know us yet...and we don't know you yet.

Without knowing you, we have no clue about any of the things you stated about yourself above. This is where social calibration comes in. You cannot assume everyone will "get you" or know where you are coming from. At the same time, you won't just "get me" and know where I come from. You'll learn to turn it up, or turn it down when necessary. I'm not saying you should change who you are, but if you were an S&M fanatic...would you bust out the Dungeon, leather, ball-gag and whip RIGHT when you meet a girl? Probably not.

Start out with a bit of spanking...then work your way up.

That was probably the worst analogy I could have given, but SOMEONE here will get it!

You make a intro post stating how you're new to the Game and what not, and then start throwing your advice at people in a abrasive/matter-of-fact way...it won't be taken lightly. There are many different approaches to this game of ours, yours might be more direct...and JonnyPUA might have a more subtle-sneaky-sniper type game. Once you meet a few different people w/ a few different styles you'll see what I mean. In the mean time, don't get worked up over this...read up...ask questions...offer up OPINIONS...and have a good ol' time.

Now, I just worked a 12 hour night shift and I'm tired as fuck. G'nite.[/quote]

Your points are well received and you are right. I am not in disagreement at all, however... :)

I am new to this board and this lifestyle - apparently you are not. Therefore, I am entitled to social mistakes and it's your duty as an expert to help me along without taking things personally.

Secondly, just because I am new to the PUA artist lifestyle and the game does not mean I do not bring with me any wisdom or understanding of people. I am quite versed in creating success around me and helping others improve their life.

I did get your analogy. It was a good one actually. One thing that has surprised me is the higher than average level of writing and communication ability in this community. There must be meaning there...

One final thought... You are right. I don't know you and you don't know me. The difference is, I did not judge anyone's character. Did you see me attack anyone's character? I questioned actions or events, not the person. I can attempt to analyze any particular action and separate that event from the person. I would think it a mistake for me to try to judge any of you on what little I have to work with here and I think it would be a mistake for you to do that to me.

Even to this point I have not formed any opinions on a single one of you as to whether I would like you or not like you or if you are arrogant or not arrogant or anything else.

[Guest]

[quote="Twitchy"]Let's go back to your stock example again. You may have done a better job of warning people if you were polite vs. antagonistic. Since you weren't, you got banned and no one benefited from your insight.

We all have sticking points. Communicating effectively may be one of yours.

Also, without anyone knowing you, no one is calibrated to your personality.[/quote]

Points taken. As for the stock I mention, the admin owned the stock so they did not want anyone bashing it for fear of people selling and lowering the price of it so that is not a good example, but I still understand where you are coming from. Sometimes admin do abuse their power.

Also, did you notice I complimented your writing ability? You never once acknowledged that. I also asked you a question about Counter-Strike that seemed to go unnoticed.

I agree that my communication skills need improvement because often when I am right nobody wants to listen. The fact that you ignored at least two things I posted on your thread also tells me you may be in need of improvement ;)

I asked about Counter-Strike because I used to run my own server. It's an online, first person, shooter game. I had a guy that used to play on my server named Twitchy.

Many of you have pointed out my need to calibrate. Help me learn that skill as I will acknowledge that I am probably in need of it.

[Guest]

[quote="Kit"]I am new to this board and this lifestyle - apparently you are not. Therefore, I am entitled to social mistakes and it's your duty as an expert to help me along without taking things personally.[/quote]
I would like to point out that nobody has any duty to help you, and you're not entitled to make freebie social mistakes without the natural social consequences.

You are new, so people owe you nothing. So far people have been relatively nice to you out of generosity. Don't take it for granted.

Also, please avoid replying to a thread twice in a row.

[Guest]

Kit, I am a very busy guy. I have a demanding job, currently have 7 MLTRs and 2 FBs, have several hobbies that keep me busy and several close guy friends I like to hang out with.

I post on this board because it provides a nice break from the grind, I learn from it and I like to help others.

When guys who I haven't met or have not earned any respect by contributing to the lair tell me they doubt my posts, I take that personally. You basically called me a liar. From my perspective, I owe you nothing.

That being said, I took some time out of my day to provide what I thought was some good advice. You have only been posting a short while and already have several people upset with you. You are very polarizing. I was giving you some advice on how to improve so that people might actually enjoy communicating with you. You can have a counter opinion to a post yet still have the respect of others if you do it right.

We are all on here to improve. You obviously sought out the community for a reason. My advice again to you is to do your homework before questioning other people's methods or tactics. As you may well know, it is tough to read emotions through text as body language and inflection make up the majority of communication. You may very well be posting in a light hearted way but I am here to tell you, it is not coming across that way.

There are a lot of guys on here who regularly bend over backwards to help others. Unfortunately, you are already turning many of them against you. It is no one's duty to help you. They have to want to.

Thank you for the compliment about my writing Yes, I played counterstrike for a short period however, I am not much of a gamer.

[Guest]

[quote="Twitchy"]

When guys who I haven't met or have not earned any respect by contributing to the lair tell me they doubt my posts, I take that personally. You basically called me a liar. From my perspective, I owe you nothing.[/quote]

Having doubts is not calling you a liar. I think it's human nature for most of us to doubt certain things. Are you really this immature? I mean seriously. If you are ban me or whatever the fuck you want. I don't give a shit anymore.

[Guest]

Kit,

You are a good writer yourself. In fact I was just reading this entire post and saying man...these guys are good writers.

I myself suck at writing. I was given the math genes and my brother was given the english genes. So in that regard I am envious of all who have posted to this thread.

I would almost advise you to delete your account and start a new one. I am relatively new to this game and board. I have been around about 3 months and I got to tell you these guys on this board are pretty badass. I'm not trying to kiss ass I am just saying what I have witnessed. What makes this board so good is the people here are as diverse as you can imagine.

You almost set yourself up for failure from the beginning. I don't know if you seek argument in your life but it sounds like it. Recalibrate what you are about and learn this game. Don't argue just to argue. It doesn't make sense. These guys on this board really will bend over backwards to help you out. I am in no way judging you in fact I kinda appreciate the controversy. Most people don't argue on this board because they don't want to step on anyone's toes. This actually hurts some of the dialog on this board. No one wants to disagree with someone else in fear that they will hurt their feelings.

Unfortunately there is a proper way to approach this and you did not do it well. Go back and look at some of your posts. Read them and figure out what you did wrong. I have seen some of your good posts and been like man where did this guy come from all the sudden. That was a really good post. Compare those to the ones people are getting pissed over and you will see there is a night and day difference.

Goodluck