Dallas PUA

I wanted to make a distinction between C&F, as taught by David DeAngelo, and being playful, like Tyler Durden recommends. I suspect that many people who say they use C&F are really actually being playful.

The way I interpret DD's C&F is that the girl is not supposed to know if you're serious or not. She's supposed to say to herself, "is this guy really this ballsy?" She's intrigued, because you seem really arrogant, but there's just enough humor there for her to stick around to see what you're "really like." I may be wrong, but I think you need to be a pretty good looking guy to pull this off, to be congruent with it.

On the other hand, you can be cocky, funny, and PLAYFUL. The distinction is that the girl knows you're not serious. I personally like this, because it subcommunicates that you are comfortable with the social pressure that comes with compliments but you DLV to show humility, which is actually another DHV on top of the compliment.

Here's a line from Juggler. A girl touches your abs and you say, "enjoy it now because I'm going to eat an entire large pizza tomorrow and ruin the effect." See, you acknowledge that you have nice abs, but deflate the compliment to show humility.

Something happened to me recently that opened my eyes to this. Here's the conversation.
Her: You have a sexy chest and arms.
Me: Yeah, they're pretty cool, I guess.
Her: LOL, I like your sense of humor.
I didn't even think about what I was saying. It's just my sense of humor. I accepted the compliment in a tongue-in-cheek way that made her laugh. It's not C&F because she knew I wasn't being serious.

Here's another one.
Her: Are you going to take me home?
Me: No. I'm shy.
Her: I'm sorry. I got tempted by the call of the flesh.
Me: Understandable. I get that a lot.
Her: LOL. That's what I like about you, your unassuming nature.
The words themselves might be C&F, but I say them in a way that she knows I'm being funny. I'm not trying to keep her guessing. The same is true of Tyler Durden's misinterpretation. When you misinterpret what she says as a sexual advance, that could be cocky if you keep a straight face. But if you're smiling and you've already created a funny, playful persona, she will mostly be enjoying your sense of humor.

The distinction I'm trying to make is that C&F is more cocky than funny; playful is more funny than cocky and, in a way, makes a parody of the cocky. I suspect that most of the people in the community are playful, not cocky. Is that fair?

Cocky/Funny from my understanding is suppose to imply that the other person is of lower value in a funny way but you still hold that cocky persona. Another term used is "banter" which I think is similar to c/f but is more playful and less cocky. Banter would be more teasing and role playing. I'm sure someone can fish up the definition for these terms...lol

C&F is being playful. From my understanding, Cocky & Playful is actually what Mystery had recommended C&F be called.

to me its inner game and playful. cocky is inner game -- not being a wuss. funny, humor, playful are basically the same thing. they are only different depends on the person's identity.

Mystery may recommend calling C&F something else because it doesn't fit well with his method, and because it's a phrase coined by David DeAngelo. DD really means it; be cocky and be funny. He says be just a little bit too cocky, but mix it with some funny. Here are DD's four rules from Double Your Dating:
1. Never give a woman a direct answer.
2. If she complains about something, keep doing it.
3. Never give a woman exactly what she asks for.
4. Always send mixed signals.
That's seriously cocky. The way I interpret it, he says be a fun, lovable bully and women will accept their submissive role to be around the funny, ballsy guy. But you have to keep up that ballsy character forever! I think that's pretty different from what Mystery and Tyler Durden call "playful." It goes beyond some role playing and misinterpretation in the attraction stage. I'm not being argumentative. I'm just trying to get these terms straight so I know what people mean when they use them. I've probably read too much of this material and it's messing with my head.

I have another perspective on this subject. I never attended any seminars and most of what I have learnt has come to me through experience in the field not read or taught (80/20 I would say). In spite of not studying much of the methods I constantly hear the phrase "Cocky and Funny" from fellow PUAs and it almost always means something different to each person. Often it hurts their chances more than it helps them.

I am sure students of the various methods could flame me for this but it seems to me that C&F boils down to being able to challenge your target and/or the group in a charming way. Conveying you are Alpha because, and this is the fucking key, you don't give a shit what they think anyway (you don't - right? you better not if you want to be good here). Rhody is basically correct with his four points in principle but knowing WHEN to use them is important too. I would also add that body language is 70% of it.

You hear women use the phrase "feeling a connection" a lot. To me that is their response if you do it right.

WD wrote:you don't give a shit what they think anyway (you don't - right? you better not if you want to be good here)... I would also add that body language is 70% of it.

as much as I dont give a shit what you think anyway, I'd say most of the time its more than 70%. especially if you're being playful.

perhaps a useful way to look at it is:

if an utterance is socially innapropriate or controversial, and the person saying it isnt an obvious social reject with Tourettes Syndrome, then theyre rising above normal social pressure to conform etc implies arrogance or sufficient social value that such transgressions do not impinge upon their overall place in society

as you align with someone (ie get into rapport/comfort and are therefore more engaging) your rapport/comfort lowers social pressure (on both of you)

the exact same phrase uttered with the same tonality etc at different phases of the convo with different levels of rapport/comfort will define whether its cockiness or playfulness - tell a greek/italian girl you hate facial hair on women cos it tickles your face in the first 5 seconds when such an utterance is socially innappropriate, and its cocky/arrogant. say the same thing in the same way when youre kissing her and it qualifies as play, because of reduced social pressure (because kissing her lends your value to her, and so takes nothing away from her).

ie think context, think what its designed to do, think of how it fits into the social dance youre doing