What's the difference between a player and a pickupartist?

[BlueMystery]

Hey guys,
I want to start a discussion group. What's the difference between a player and a pickupartist?

I've seen posts here where guys are a called 'players'. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? What separates the players from the pickupartists, or are they the same thing?

What do you guys think?


BlueM

[Scoundrel]

This is a topic I've discussed at legnth with a number of women. A "Player" or "Playa" plays head games and lies. He'll say anything to get her into bed and tell her he's not seeing other women when he really is.

As PUAs we NEVER lie to women about anything.

[BlueMystery]

This is a topic I've discussed at legnth with a number of women. A "Player" or "Playa" plays head games and lies. He'll say anything to get her into bed and tell her he's not seeing other women when he really is.

As PUAs we NEVER lie to women about anything.

I agree with you Scoundrel. A PUA doesn't need to lie to women about anything because he knows who he is and what he wants.

I reckon that it comes down to an 'abundance' mindset vs a 'scarcity' mindset.


BlueM

[Westfall]

I agree with you Scoundrel. A PUA doesn't need to lie to women about anything because he knows who he is and what he wants.

I reckon that it comes down to an 'abundance' mindset vs a 'scarcity' mindset.

I sometimes lie to women. It isn't that I need to do this, it is that I have no prefernece for the truth over lies. Sometimes it is fun to lie. Besides, who is 100% honest with anyone? That said, I do think I lie to women less than most guys.

[Scoundrel]

Ahhh Westfall...

It's one thing to lie playfully. Calling a girl a dork or telling her a playful story isn't what I'm fefering to when I say lie. It's not a lie if she knows you are lieing to her by the end of the joke.

I'm saying a "player" will tell a woman that he's an investment banker with an penthouse apartment on the upper East side of Manhatton and that he's fallen in love with her and she's the only woman in his life if he thinks it'll get her to have sex with him.

As PUAs, IMHO, we shouldn't lie about our lifestyle, job, income or where we live. With tight game it's unnessary.

[Westfall]

There are lots of things that are unnessacary. Peacocking is not nessacary, but everytime I go out peacocked, I get opened by women who think I'm interesting. Saves me effort.

I agree that a PUA shouldn't have the mindset that he "needs" to lie to a woman. But I also disagree that honesty is some sort of moral imparitive that we have to live up to. Telling a woman you're an investment banker with a penthouse is qualifying to her--trying to impress her, but this is true wether or not you are actually an investment banker with a penthouse. It is completely possible and very effective to lie to women, but PUAs should take care that they don't come off as qualifying or approval-seeking in doing so.

If a girl you're trying to fuck has a huge hang up about not fucking you unless she believes she will be in a relationship with her, it seems obvious to me what you should do if you want to f-close.

Of course if you're interested in a LTR with a girl, the perhaps you might want to preserve the trust....but I think an even better approach in this case, is to try to be honest, but tell the girl you sometimes lie to women--that way when they find out you've lied to them, it isn't incongruent with what you've presented to them.

But if you just want to fuck them, who cares.

[Scoundrel]

Well, this is where you and I differ westfall. I don't have sex with a woman unless I am planning on doing it many times. I like having several numbers I can call when I'm feeling lonely.

The trouble with telling women lies is that women talk to each other.

[Westfall]

Agreed. We are different, but that doesn't mean I am not a pua. Some puas lie. And it isn't even that big of a deal to women if you don't represent yourself as 100% honest all the time.

WF

[Scoundrel]

I disagree. The whole point of being a PUA is finding the man women love within yourself. If you are lieing, you are not giving your true self to these women. There's no need to lie to a woman to have sex with her, so why would you do it?

Are you really such a drab, boring little person that you have to lie to get a woman in your bed? If so I feel a great deal of pity for you indeed.

The other answer is that you have some desire to hurt these women. Perhaps because they once hurt you and you want revenge. This is a dangerous place to be in and, if it is your case, you should seek professional help before you do something you may regret.

[Westfall]

I disagree. The whole point of being a PUA is finding the man women love within yourself.

Perhaps that is the point to you, but it is not the point to me. The point of PUA is to improve my life and make me happier. With some girls this may involve a romantic or love component, with some I just want sex.

If you are lieing, you are not giving your true self to these women. There's no need to lie to a woman to have sex with her, so why would you do it?

And why do these women deserve my true self? You do need to lie to some women to have sex with them...or at least it makes it easier to do. Perhaps I could with greater effort sleep with the same girl without lieing to her. More effort??? No thanks, Ill pass. You're still not answer my question as to why should you not lie? Even if it isn't necessary...a lot of things are necessary. The fact is, being willing to lie has gotten me laid on occasions where I do not think truthfulness would have. Lieing is just like any other tactic in pua and in life. Use wisely though...

Are you really such a drab, boring little person that you have to lie to get a woman in your bed? If so I feel a great deal of pity for you indeed.

Truly you have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone who has ever been out with me even once knows I am anything but boring. I only point this out because your statement makes it clear that you know nothing about me. Every single time I have gone out with someone from this board it has resulted in a legendary adveneture. If I were to have a stroke and be in a coma, I would still be more intersting than most guys. I simply do not get this self-defeating honesty-above-all-else mentality. Be honest when it is advantagous for you to do so.

The other answer is that you have some desire to hurt these women. Perhaps because they once hurt you and you want revenge. This is a dangerous place to be in and, if it is your case, you should seek professional help before you do something you may regret

It is absurd to suggest that you are hurting someone everytime you lie to them. Sometimes a lie can help the person you are decieving. Perhaps I create for a girl a romantic fantasy and let her live it out for one night. Sure she will be disapoitned later, but for that one night, she experinced something she wouldn't otherwise have been able to, and although it may have been an illusion, she is still greatful it occured. Of course I don't lie all the time, and certainly wouldnt recomend doing so, but decieption is a useful too just like anything else.

And I have no problem hurting women either, at least not until they earn value in my eyes, at which point I would care about them. That said, as a general rule, I have found it rarely in my best interest to bring harm to another person .

WF