Negative Compliance Momentum and replies (ASF repost)

[Tribulus1000]

Date Posted: 2005/09/12 03:22:00 PM EDT
Author: Sinn <unknown email address>
Subject: Negative Compliance Momentum

So as we all know there is no 100% correct model to P/U. MM is about 85% and
that is fucking amazing because it is intellectualizing dynamic real world
situations.
However with that said I have discovered another little piece of the puzzle.

First some background. In life humans interact in 5 ways
1. DHV - we demonstrate a higher value to other humans
2. DLV- we demonstrate a lower value- Well not us PUAs but other guys do. we
would never do that Smile
3. IOI- we indicate our interest in others
4. IOD- we indicate our disinterest
5. Compliance testing- Almost all interactions at some point come down to a
test for compliance. Will you get compliance or defiance?

The basic MM model looks something like this :
Open ( which is a very small CT)
IOD
DHV
CT
IOI

We open and then IOD and DHV and wait for female IOIs.
When they come we compliance test: if we have compliance we give an IOI
This cycle continues until we reach sex which is somewhere around 65%
compliance.
Full compliance is when you tell her to cut herself and she does I only know of
one guy who gets full compliance and he's an instructor for us.

So now that you know what the basic coding is you hopefully will understand
this situation and why it diametrically opposed to the model.

You open and instantly the girls are into you then you are dogmatic and
neg(IOD) them. In an instant the interaction goes sour.
Why?

Because you have established negative compliance momentum. You punished them
for good behavior.
This is why you guys are blowing yourselves out with lower quality girls and
nicer girls.
10s will not usually want to talk to you off the opener ( read low compliance
to your opener) So to establish compliance we IOD.

However if you already have compliance you are in comfort. Comfort is simply a
higher threshold of compliance.
If I walk up to one of my G/Fs and I kiss her she will not only let me she will
pull me in and kiss me harder. Why?

Because we have a high level of compliance. However I have almost no chance of
walking up to a stranger and doing this.
Comfort is not only trust and time it is also compliance.

If we are hanging out together and I ask you to do something for me you are way
more likely to do it then if i ask a random stranger.
When choosing to align with people we comply to their requests to a certain
threshold. There is a compliance threshold that we put on others. It is what we
consider acceptable behavior.

I for one do not like being touched but this weekend me and Matador were
hanging out in Vegas with a high roller who got us in all the exclusive venues
free and took care of everything so because I wanted to align with this guy I
allowed him to get away with playful pushing and slapping that normally would
result in my patented " don't touch me" response.
Because of his value my compliance threshold was raised. So the more value you
can convey pre compliance test the more chance of success you have.

However do not be afraid to overestimate your value as you will blow yourself
out by creating negative compliance.

I used to have a problem with Southern girls as they were so nice and I felt I
wasn't getting through so I would over neg to obnoxiousness. Now I know that
those sets were already on and all I was doing was creating resistance to my compliance tests.

As Mystery would say " Isn't this a brillant concept? I came up with this"

This is 100% field tested and it took me awhile to put find the words to
express it

[Tribulus1000]

Date Posted: 2005/09/12 07:16:00 PM EDT
Author: Woodhaven <unknown email address>
Subject: Negative Compliance Momentum

Yo Sinn,

Great post. You came up with this all by yourself? Brilliant.

>You open and instantly the
>girls are into you then you
>are dogmatic and neg(IOD)
>them. In an instant the
>interaction goes sour.
>Why?
>
>Because you have established
>negative compliance momentum.
>You punished them for good
>behavior.

This underlying dynamic is present through ALL interactions.

Here are some other ways I've noticed guys starting negative compliance
momentum:

-Being too cocky in an uncallibrated or serious manner.
-Not calling and comforting a woman after sex.
-Producing a wide open window for physical escalation, and not following
through.
-Too much disapproval during the screening process, or failure to qualify.

In other words not rewarding her good behavior, or presupposing bad behavior.

If that cycle begins, it's best to first of all spot it early, and secondly,
you can start a positive compliance momentum (aka mutual value escalation if
you want to use woodhaven / dimitri lingo) in the following ways:

-Assume attraction and lead her into a great vibe.
-Pace and lead or cold read her as someone who doesn't play games.
-Verbalize lower value or disqualify yourself to bait her into qualifying you.

Once she responds positively, you can then IOI her / qualify her and get back
on track.


Woodhaven

[Alphagame]

I agree 100%. I used to blow myself out of perfectly good sets using negs when I first started trying to learn pick-up. And I think this is a huge newbie mistake, that is, the over-use of negs or use of negs when they aren't needed.

[Scoundrel]

This opens my eyes to an issue I've had when chicks open me. I may be playing too hard to get.

[El Fenix]

speaking of not having to play hard to get:
I will never forget the night at Sherlocks when close to closing time a girl I had been talking to earlier,(about a 7.5) comes up to me puts her arm around me and we start talking again....
Her:what's going on after this?
ME:I'm going home, unless you know of an afterparty.
Her:its at your place.

[Bull Run]

I agree 100%. I used to blow myself out of perfectly good sets using negs when I first started trying to learn pick-up. And I think this is a huge newbie mistake, that is, the over-use of negs or use of negs when they aren't needed.

I over-used negs when I began as well. Blow outs were common. I still use them, but not nearly as much as I did in the past AND usually I only use them once I've been in set for a little while. I constantly sprinkle negs in during my interactions because that's my nature, I like to tease girls about meaningless stuff. It's sort of a shit test, if you can handle the harmless, playful teasing and dish it back out to me then you're cool and someone I'd like to hang with otherwise I'm out.

[Westfall]

I over-used negs when I began as well. Blow outs were common. I still use them, but nearly as much as I did in the past AND usually I only use them once I've been in set for a little while. I constantly sprinkle negs in during my interactions because that's my nature, I like to tease girls about meaningless stuff. It's sort of a shit test, if you can handle the harmless, playful teasing and dish it back out to me then you're cool and someone I'd like to hang with otherwise I'm out.

I like to throw out some pretty harsh "negs" --some would call them insults once I'm in the interaction teasing the girl. I do this with a smile, and almost always the girls like this--they view it as teasing...think like kids on a playground teasing each other. If they take it well and tease back, I reward them, and this always gets a good response.

WF