This is a little strange. I've been imporving myself for the past two years now, and I feel I've had quite a bit of success. I've number-closed, day 2ed 3ed and 4ed, f-closed, SNLed, I've had some exciting times (even though I'm nowhere near the level I want to be, and probably pale in comparison to most of you veterans). I'm definitely waaaay better with women than I was two years ago. The difference is night and day. But with all this success, I'm almost ashamed to admit, I still haven't a clue how to open women.
It's weird, but it's almost like skipping ahead in a book, the first boring chapter, to get to the good part. I've gotten to the good part, but every now and then, I realize I'm working from a shakey foundation, and so many doors would open for me if I'd just put in the time and work to learn how to open women.
"How do you meet women if you never open?" Is what you're probably asking. This is part of the problem. I'm not exactly sure. It just happens naturally and organically within the course of a fun night out. I just don't think about it. Lately, though I've been trying to break down the unconsious methodology to figure out the logic behind it and try and recreate it in a consious manner.
Here's a sample of what I've noticed myself doing:
Getting introduced by a friend: This happened last night. It was easy, and I had my foot in the door, and I was charming enough to get her to invite me to the next party.
Getting opened by the girl: Very rare, but it has happened before.
Spontaneous situation opener: Last weekend I met a girl that I eventually f-closed 3 days later. The way we met was that one of my friends was taking a picture of another doing something silly. The girl was passing by and I just told her to take a picture of them. That was enough to get my foot in the door. But this is something that seems extremely difficult to consiously recreate.
Trying to get my friend laid: The events surrounding this one were fuzzy, but I basically pushed my friend onto the dance floor with another girl, and then struck up a conversation with that girl's friend about the two of them. Ended up making out with this girl. Also seems difficult to recreate consciously.
Jumping in on the conversation: A friend and I were having an apparently loud serious discussion about life, and this girl passing by with her friend made a comment about our conversation. That was enough for me to not only include her in on our discussion, but immediately grab her by the hand and walk her across a large hotel lobby into the ladies room where we hung out and flirted for a while. Also very spontaneous, and seems impossible to do this on purpose.
Bascially, most of these are spur of the moment and based on circumstances I have no control over. Alchohol is also usually involved. Opinion openers seem awkward and unnatural to me. There has to be a better way of opening women. More often than not I find I'm lusting at a girl from across the room and have no idea how to strike up a conversation or what to say. If I can just get that foot in the door though, I know everything will be okay.
I used to think that not opening was something that made my approach to this unique and less affected. It felt more natural. But now I'm at a point where I think it'd be nice to learn how to open and it'll give me more options.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
I never open....
15 posts
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by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:54 am
One thing that would always piss me off is when things just happened by chance. Many nights though I would be pissed at myself that I didn't choose. I wasn't the one walking around the bar and finding the hottest girl and opening her. Usually the night would go along and it would happen randomly, AI, proximity, etc. Later in my career though I started choosing a lot more and would just go direct.
It sounds like you have the ability to close. So here are some things I would do.
Get yourself a wing. Make an agreement with your wing. It will be something like this. You find a girl you want and he can do the same. You will open his girl and at some point he will come in and your will introduce. Then you can eject. The exact opposite will happen for you. He will open your target, you will walk by a few minutes later, and he will introduce you.
Another thing I would recommend is just saying "Hi". It is the oldest opener in the book and needless to say it works. Once again it sounds like you have the ability to close once you are in set. You are in set once you say Hi.
Find some witty openers. Just scour the internet and you will surely come across some. Ohh geeze I am trying to think of one that works awesome on 2 sets.
"I realize you guys don't get very much attention from men so I thought I would come say hello"
You might even want to throw this in front of it:
"I was standing over there" *Pointing* and realize you guys...
Yes, that is corny as hell but hot girls fucking hated that opener. When I mean hated I mean loved. Use it on better looking girls as it is an instant neg. Uggs will probably find it offensive especially if they deem you high value. Be ready for a instant follow up. You will almost always here this.
You're a Jerk!
What makes you think that?
Have something witty to answer these with. Don't recanter or grovel.
Hrmm what else.
Another opener I liked to use:
I would go up near the girl and stand there with my shoulder pointing towards her. Freaking hard to explain. I would stand there for ohh 7-15 seconds. Then I would bust her balls by saying something like: You're very shy! I have been standing here for like 12 seconds and you haven't said Hello. Don't ask my why but girls hate being called shy. They will immediately defend their shyness and introduce themselves, say hello, laugh, etc. On a rare occasion the girl will actually admit to being shy. These are usually the ugly ducklings who are now HB8's-9's.
I guess the last thing I will tell you is you are going to continually kick yourself for not opening girls. Even when you find success you will be upset that the success came from randomness instead of you. So just make it a point to open at least one set a night. It might not go anywhere but at least you were the one choosing.
It sounds like you have the ability to close. So here are some things I would do.
Get yourself a wing. Make an agreement with your wing. It will be something like this. You find a girl you want and he can do the same. You will open his girl and at some point he will come in and your will introduce. Then you can eject. The exact opposite will happen for you. He will open your target, you will walk by a few minutes later, and he will introduce you.
Another thing I would recommend is just saying "Hi". It is the oldest opener in the book and needless to say it works. Once again it sounds like you have the ability to close once you are in set. You are in set once you say Hi.
Find some witty openers. Just scour the internet and you will surely come across some. Ohh geeze I am trying to think of one that works awesome on 2 sets.
"I realize you guys don't get very much attention from men so I thought I would come say hello"
You might even want to throw this in front of it:
"I was standing over there" *Pointing* and realize you guys...
Yes, that is corny as hell but hot girls fucking hated that opener. When I mean hated I mean loved. Use it on better looking girls as it is an instant neg. Uggs will probably find it offensive especially if they deem you high value. Be ready for a instant follow up. You will almost always here this.
You're a Jerk!
What makes you think that?
Have something witty to answer these with. Don't recanter or grovel.
Hrmm what else.
Another opener I liked to use:
I would go up near the girl and stand there with my shoulder pointing towards her. Freaking hard to explain. I would stand there for ohh 7-15 seconds. Then I would bust her balls by saying something like: You're very shy! I have been standing here for like 12 seconds and you haven't said Hello. Don't ask my why but girls hate being called shy. They will immediately defend their shyness and introduce themselves, say hello, laugh, etc. On a rare occasion the girl will actually admit to being shy. These are usually the ugly ducklings who are now HB8's-9's.
I guess the last thing I will tell you is you are going to continually kick yourself for not opening girls. Even when you find success you will be upset that the success came from randomness instead of you. So just make it a point to open at least one set a night. It might not go anywhere but at least you were the one choosing.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:54 pm
Fuzz, I agree with you 100%! I too don't open much but when I do, there spontaneous and situational. With that being said, not opening will limit your choices dramatically if you do not approach...
Since you're most comfortable with situational openers, why not create the "situation?"
example (credit dr. Mike for this opener): you see a target across the room that you would like to open.
The set up: you're with a wing (preferably two or more) and tell your friend to wait 2 mins then come say hi in a surprised shocked manner.
Go stand near the girl with your back to her and socialize with your other friend(s), creating social proof. Two minutes later, your friend comes to say hi and you act like you haven't seen him in months. Then turn around and ask her to take a pic of you and your buddies.
You (standing there, chilling, talking)
your friend: omg! Fuzz! whats up man! Haven't seen you since that crazy party in Austin! What have you been up to?!
You: blah blah blah
At this point turn around and say: hey, do you mind taking a picture of us? And hand her the camera before she can respond. She takes picture and gives you back the camera-- at this point you can neg her or whatever...
She is now opened with a canned "situational" opener you created. It'll be natural and she will never even notice it was planned.
She's openened, proceed with game.
A little gimmicky, but I've seen it worked EVERYTIME...
Since you're most comfortable with situational openers, why not create the "situation?"
example (credit dr. Mike for this opener): you see a target across the room that you would like to open.
The set up: you're with a wing (preferably two or more) and tell your friend to wait 2 mins then come say hi in a surprised shocked manner.
Go stand near the girl with your back to her and socialize with your other friend(s), creating social proof. Two minutes later, your friend comes to say hi and you act like you haven't seen him in months. Then turn around and ask her to take a pic of you and your buddies.
You (standing there, chilling, talking)
your friend: omg! Fuzz! whats up man! Haven't seen you since that crazy party in Austin! What have you been up to?!
You: blah blah blah
At this point turn around and say: hey, do you mind taking a picture of us? And hand her the camera before she can respond. She takes picture and gives you back the camera-- at this point you can neg her or whatever...
She is now opened with a canned "situational" opener you created. It'll be natural and she will never even notice it was planned.
She's openened, proceed with game.
A little gimmicky, but I've seen it worked EVERYTIME...
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:58 pm
If you use spontaneous and situational openers exclusively then you're going to be at the mercy of two things: 1) the stimulus in the environment happening right then and there AND 2) your creativity and wittiness.
Sometimes, you don't have anything to say and sometimes there's nothing to talk about. So, by it's very nature, you are somewhat at the mercy of Fate, for lack of a better word.
The Community has developed ways to get around this fact: canned openers and direct approaches. That's the reason they exist really.
I've never been a proponent of canned material, sure I've used some but I never like doing so. I felt contrived and like I was stealing someone else's personality. I don't like direct approaches because I think it's a little creepy, I think it takes the fun out of seduction, and I think it's superficial. I mean you don't know this woman, why would you ever make your intentions with her known unless you decided you wanted her. Shit, I would fuck 100% of the women that I'm attracted to but I don't want that to be the only reason I'm slipping her my hot man chicken.
I recognized the same thing that you did. I didn't like canned shit and I think direct game is cheesy. So, I decided that I needed to try to think of every social situation that I could ever find myself in with a woman I didn't know.The girl at the checkout counter at Macy's, a 2 set in a bar, the girl in front of me at the grocery store, the hottie that rides up the elevator with me, etc. I thought of these specific situations and thought of, what would appear to be seemingly random things to them, things to say. Lines. Stories. Jokes. Whatever.
In essence, I would create a list of things to say and recall them when I was in the moment. Essentially creating my own personalized database of canned openers. But, they were mine. I didn't steal them from any one. It took me a long time to compile the list, but now, if I so choose, I know what to say and recall it and deliever it to the lady in question. To this day, I'm still adding to the list and revising the list.
A good example is when I find myself in an elevator with a hottie and a reflective surface lines the inside of the elevator, the ones where you can see your and everyone else's reflection. Well, I say something like: "Do you ever find it awkward to ride up these elevators with mirrors on the inside? I mean what are you supposed to look at? If you look at yourself then you're a narcassist, if you look at the other people in here with you then you're that creepy, socially awkward person..."
I've always gotten positive responses from that line. But, I have a handful of these lines or small openers for as many situtations that I find myself in. I try not to focus too much on situtations you find in a night club or bar because there's so much stimulus to focus on. Instead, I focus more on everyday situations. It's important that you can game chicks outside of a bar because most girls you met in a bar aren't worth the toilet paper that sticks to the bottom of your shoe when you leave the restroom.
Sometimes, you don't have anything to say and sometimes there's nothing to talk about. So, by it's very nature, you are somewhat at the mercy of Fate, for lack of a better word.
The Community has developed ways to get around this fact: canned openers and direct approaches. That's the reason they exist really.
I've never been a proponent of canned material, sure I've used some but I never like doing so. I felt contrived and like I was stealing someone else's personality. I don't like direct approaches because I think it's a little creepy, I think it takes the fun out of seduction, and I think it's superficial. I mean you don't know this woman, why would you ever make your intentions with her known unless you decided you wanted her. Shit, I would fuck 100% of the women that I'm attracted to but I don't want that to be the only reason I'm slipping her my hot man chicken.
I recognized the same thing that you did. I didn't like canned shit and I think direct game is cheesy. So, I decided that I needed to try to think of every social situation that I could ever find myself in with a woman I didn't know.The girl at the checkout counter at Macy's, a 2 set in a bar, the girl in front of me at the grocery store, the hottie that rides up the elevator with me, etc. I thought of these specific situations and thought of, what would appear to be seemingly random things to them, things to say. Lines. Stories. Jokes. Whatever.
In essence, I would create a list of things to say and recall them when I was in the moment. Essentially creating my own personalized database of canned openers. But, they were mine. I didn't steal them from any one. It took me a long time to compile the list, but now, if I so choose, I know what to say and recall it and deliever it to the lady in question. To this day, I'm still adding to the list and revising the list.
A good example is when I find myself in an elevator with a hottie and a reflective surface lines the inside of the elevator, the ones where you can see your and everyone else's reflection. Well, I say something like: "Do you ever find it awkward to ride up these elevators with mirrors on the inside? I mean what are you supposed to look at? If you look at yourself then you're a narcassist, if you look at the other people in here with you then you're that creepy, socially awkward person..."
I've always gotten positive responses from that line. But, I have a handful of these lines or small openers for as many situtations that I find myself in. I try not to focus too much on situtations you find in a night club or bar because there's so much stimulus to focus on. Instead, I focus more on everyday situations. It's important that you can game chicks outside of a bar because most girls you met in a bar aren't worth the toilet paper that sticks to the bottom of your shoe when you leave the restroom.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:00 pm
[QUOTE=Prodigy;34152]It'll be natural and she will never even notice it was planned.[/QUOTE]
You're crazy if you don't think that the girls know what just happened. I'd venture to say 9 times out of 10 they knew exactly what happened but didn't care because they liked you or didn't bring it up because they were glad you talked with her.
You're crazy if you don't think that the girls know what just happened. I'd venture to say 9 times out of 10 they knew exactly what happened but didn't care because they liked you or didn't bring it up because they were glad you talked with her.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:04 pm
[QUOTE=Bull Run;34155]You're crazy if you don't think that the girls know what just happened. I'd venture to say 9 times out of 10 they knew exactly what happened but didn't care because they liked you or didn't bring it up because they were glad you talked with her.[/QUOTE]
9/10?
No way it can be that high. That is a super perceptive chick if she knew that was planned out. Add in the booze in a bar and it just can't be a high ratio.
9/10?
No way it can be that high. That is a super perceptive chick if she knew that was planned out. Add in the booze in a bar and it just can't be a high ratio.
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:57 pm
BR, what you suggested is exactly what the opener in my post was an example of; creating canned openers from what seems to be situational...
But I will disagree with you, in a bar/club setting, people are asked to take pictures ALL the time. The only way she would know it was planned is if: 1) she saw you guys together earlier in the night or 2) your wing's tonality of voice gave it away, ie: he cant fake it for shit..
I doubt the ratio is that high...
But I will disagree with you, in a bar/club setting, people are asked to take pictures ALL the time. The only way she would know it was planned is if: 1) she saw you guys together earlier in the night or 2) your wing's tonality of voice gave it away, ie: he cant fake it for shit..
I doubt the ratio is that high...
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:26 pm
[QUOTE=Prodigy;34157]BR, what you suggested is exactly what the opener in my post was an example of; creating canned openers from what seems to be situational...
But I will disagree with you, in a bar/club setting, people are asked to take pictures ALL the time. The only way she would know it was planned is if: 1) she saw you guys together earlier in the night or 2) your wing's tonality of voice gave it away, ie: he cant fake it for shit..
I doubt the ratio is that high...[/QUOTE]
I'm telling you guys women are a shit ton more perceptive than you are giving them credit for...
But, 9/10 may be too high. Let's say 89 out of a 100 instead ;)
But I will disagree with you, in a bar/club setting, people are asked to take pictures ALL the time. The only way she would know it was planned is if: 1) she saw you guys together earlier in the night or 2) your wing's tonality of voice gave it away, ie: he cant fake it for shit..
I doubt the ratio is that high...[/QUOTE]
I'm telling you guys women are a shit ton more perceptive than you are giving them credit for...
But, 9/10 may be too high. Let's say 89 out of a 100 instead ;)
- Guest
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