Boot Camps

[Guest]

Obviously this is a response to the Mystery boot camp coming to town...

BUT,

I've never been to a boot camp, nor do I intend to attend one at this point in my development, but I've always been curious to know how effective they truly are.

It seems that the Community has become very commercial (which is fine, I love when someone can parlay their skill into cash). The fact that it's commercial and is responsible for some people's livelihoods indicates to me that they do have some worth. But, it also appears that they are very impersonal and temporary (without a lair to help you along the path, how can one weekend really change you that much).

It seems to me the best way to really learn this stuff is to become an active member of lairs like ours. Sure, no single one of us may have the skill as a Mystery or any of the plethora of other coaches. But, collectively we know way more than them AND we're always around.

Thoughts?


***Edit: It seems to me after re-reading this that I'm anti-boot camp. Not at all, I'm just trying to start a dialogue on the virtues of boot camps.***

[Guest]

Totally agree with BR. As far as material on routines, ESP, openers, DHV stories etc goes theres tons and tons of free stuff available and you tend to come across fresh routines/openers.

I think boot camps can help you in 2 ways if ur and AFC (like me)
1) you have already invested $$$$$ so thats extra motivation for making the most of it.
2) the guys will push u into sets. This would really work for ppl like me. Im the kinda guy who will just stand around watchin his social value drop as time passes unless some1 really pushes me to open a set. Aint proud of it but thats how it is right now :(

Having said that I wouldnt get into bootcamps just cause of the fact that I aint got that kinda money right now :o))

So my alternative is to come out and meet you guys, get pointers etc. Smirks, Matrix have helped me by making me open sets but I goto now start doing it on my own...

[Guest]

Agree. I don't see why you would take one unless you've plateaued via free resources AND are active in local lair. Ie asked experienced guys to observe and crtique you...

Unless you have nothing better to do with 3000..

(Typed from phone)

[Guest]

im waiting for Vector to chime in here.

[Guest]

I would hate to disappoint...

It helped me a lot, but I think the helpfulness of a bootcamp depends strongly on the particular student, specifically what the student is having trouble with. Some things are easily teachable, and some things change only slowly and with difficulty.

My belief is that opening and basic attraction is teachable. Escalation and seduction (which is at least 50% logistics) is teachable. But if you're coming off as weird in comfort, or if you have some deep anxiety or insecurities that are messing you up, that's going to take time.

Changing your outfit and hair style can happen in a weekend. If you're overweight, changing that takes longer.

In my case, I think was already good in comfort. At approaching I was terrible and I did a lot of approval-seeking and supplicating, which of course killed whatever ounce of attraction I might have had. At seduction I wasn't good or bad, it was nonexistent. The way I dressed was also very bad, as was my hair style, but as far as physical features I am attractive enough.

So in other words, my major problems were all fixable, and the things that are hard to change, I was already good enough, which is why I think it helped me so much. I didn't know this ahead of time. I just lucked out. For me there was a big change in that one weekend.

Another part of it that's valuable is getting a skilled person to observe you and point out what you're doing wrong. This is going to depend on the instructor. I was very happy with the feedback I got from my instructor, but I have heard that there is a lot of variation and some are not so good.

Perhaps the most important thing was that before my bootcamp, approaching was very unpleasant, and as a result I almost never went out, and I never approached. Afterward, I went out like crazy because it was fun. Not because I was getting laid, because at first I wasn't, but just the process was enjoyable. (It's entirely possible I might have come to enjoy going out and approaching without taking a bootcamp.) Going out, getting real experience is what really makes the difference. To get good at anything, you have to do it.

[Guest]

As an AFC I think feedback and like Kevlar said the pressure of being pushed to go beyond your comfort level would be helpful, but $ 3000 dollars is a ridiculous amount of money to spend. Especially since I imagine it will be a class and you probably will not have very much or any one-on-one coaching or critiquing. I personally think it would be a beneficial step for me, but I'm too much of a cheap skate to spend that kind of money.

[Guest]

I would think you would have to be someone like Vector in the fact that you had the tools already you just needed to know for yourself and use them. I also think a great teacher could help you along way faster but if you have an issue holding you back in that weekend it would be a huge waste of money. I personally think that with 3 world class famous PUA's a couple of really good instructors to wing you, some fine ass pivots in 1 bar to work with you and anyone with that kinda social proof will be on fire. Its the weekend after that i would like to hear about.

[Guest]

In my case I was still very new. I took my bootcamp less than a month after I found out about the existence of the community. But like I said, I was lucky.

[Guest]

whos Bootcamp did u attend Vector?

[Guest]

Sinn was my instructor. It was in November 2006, shortly before the public split between Savoy and Mystery.