Categorizing Women: a rambling session...

[Guest]

Im not sure where this thread may go, but It is definitely relevant.

I wanna talk about understanding women. Not necessarily what they say, but understanding their thought processes and how to use them to our advantages. It is definitely a warranted skill. He who understands the woman, gets what he wants from her. Those who are clueless.... Well eventually they find themselves looking up seduction lairs and then become involved in the community.

So what do we know about women? That they are emotional. That they are naturally apt to succeed in any given social scenario, hence they become walking advertisements or scheisty PR's and sales managers. That they believe they have a power over men because "most" men will give them what they want, and will sway their own needs to assure the woman is comfortable, because after all it is hardwired into society that men will be providers and women will be on the receptive end of that deal.

So how do we go about understanding their emotional thinking? here is scenario A... completely fictitious but plausible. Girl decides to go out with her friends(girls night out or day out) and she's gone for a few hours and when she returns to her man she either has brought him something or jumps his bones for passionate/rough sex. Logically we would tell ourselves that she was sweet and thought about "guy" because thats what any woman does for a good man.... thats LOGICAL.... but chances are that while she was out paying complete disregard to the fact that she did have a man, something happened to slip thoughts of him back into her head. it could be any number of things. A song, an ad, a conversation that she had with her friends, a group of guys that approached and did not know how to carry things to the next level therefore leaving her thinking that she's lucky to have Guy A. (it seems scattered but I'm going somewhere with this)

Scenario b. a more familiar situation: guy approaches girl has a seemingly decent conversation in which a few IOI's were thrown about but at the first sign of escalation she immediately turns and flees. logically we could assume that guy might have been a bit creepy in his escalation, or that he had fouled up. but being that women are emotional that answer might not be as reasonable as to assume that mybe she realized she was late for something, that she had just gotten out of a bad relationship, her period started... the possibilities are endless.

Heres a situation happening to a guy I know. he's trying to gain rapport but she keeps throwing a wrench in the mix. he's doing a gentle escalation but she pushes him back into ljbf category. He talks about her, she talks about another guy. His game plan is foiled unless he changes it up. She responded well to the approach. She gladly set up the date and flirts via text. but her other signs are fucking him up. Guy A might say he fucked up and count the day 2 offf as a loss. But instead guy A recognizes the pattern. He makes a bold move she's receptive. He tries to take the scenic route, she strays. Guy changes it up to full direct mode. Cuts the bullshit and she follows suit. he closes her. Days later guy initiates indirectly. no response. next day he repeats. she repeats. 3rd day guy says come over. she responds immediately. Now based on all the following information we can assume that this girl is very sexual. you cant tell from what she's verbally saying and literalize it. But from her pattern of response, we can tell that she is DTF( down to fuck) So there is a very apparent pattern here but is is something most girls would replicate?

What does the opposite end of the spectrum look like? Guy approaches girl she is leery of his motions. Guy initiates day 2 she needs convincing. She eats up rapport time and craves more and jus when you interpret her ioi's as sexual and grab her by the back of the head she punches you and tells you she's not a slut?

What are some basic/ immediate signs girls display when you begin to catergorize them as sexual or nonsexual? IM AWARE THERE ARE CATEGORIES IN BETWEEN (caps sucks) but for those of you with experience, when would you draw the line and say i need to be this guy because she is that girl? are there any specific linear clues that girls drop over and over again to the fact that they are "the" type that we should aim our efforts @?

[Guest]

Hmmm, I have a similar dilemma. There is a girl that goes highly sexual at times and calles me names like hun, sweety, hottie, those things. Like once a week or so she will send me some kinda txt with these in there. I try and arrange a meetup, and she usually flakes the day of saying that she is too tired, or she had a long day at work or some shit. I think I need to lay down the rules with her and order her around. My plan is once I move into my new place away from parents to call her and tell (not ask) her to come over. If she makes excuses I will tell her I don't have time for flakes and games and to let me know when she is done wasting my time and I MIGHT give her another shot, and hang up. I think I have not laid down the rules and been strict enough with this chick, so she thinks its cool to flake, but she is the one that reinitiates the text convo after not talking to her for a few days. I think she is validation seeking, but at the same time wants me?

Any thoughts on that? I think that ties in with what you said earlier and needing to go more direct and strict.

[Guest]

[quote1228317325=Just/Us]
Hmmm, I have a similar dilemma. There is a girl that goes highly sexual at times and calles me names like hun, sweety, hottie, those things. Like once a week or so she will send me some kinda txt with these in there. I try and arrange a meetup, and she usually flakes the day of saying that she is too tired, or she had a long day at work or some shit. I think I need to lay down the rules with her and order her around. My plan is once I move into my new place away from parents to call her and tell (not ask) her to come over. If she makes excuses I will tell her I don't have time for flakes and games and to let me know when she is done wasting my time and I MIGHT give her another shot, and hang up. I think I have not laid down the rules and been strict enough with this chick, so she thinks its cool to flake, but she is the one that reinitiates the text convo after not talking to her for a few days. I think she is validation seeking, but at the same time wants me?

Any thoughts on that? I think that ties in with what you said earlier and needing to go more direct and strict.
[/quote1228317325]


If you flake on her once, she'll come back around. Try that instead. If that doesn't work, don't call her or keep pursuing her. Just drop it and let her open you back up. If she's interested, she will.

[Guest]

[quote1228317551=Bull Run]

If that doesn't work, don't call her or keep pursuing her. Just drop it and let her open you back up. If she's interested, she will.
[/quote1228317551]

Yes, that is what I have done a couple times and she opens me back up. That is why I am saying I need to lay down rules and do the take away by hanging up on her afterwards or whatever.

Like I will quit talking to her for like a week, and she will send me a text out of nowwhere. This is actually a conversation with her [link=http://www.dallaslair.org/p/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?25967]here[/link]. Then I say I will contact you sunday night be ready. Then she texts "k! You better! :) :)" Then I text her sunday and she says she is too tired, she had a hard day at work, and she looks like hell. Then she calls me on the phone and have a phone convo for like 40 min. This girl is sending me these mixed messages and it really messes with your head. And I am fed up with the flaking b.s. I think I am obviously not pushing her around enough.

And she has tried to meet up with me like twice, just her contacting me, but both of those times I was busy or doing something else I already made plans for.
haha, this is such a fucked up relationship I have with her.


Ya, didn't mean to hijack your thread solace.

[Guest]

maybe she really is just exhausted and has things going on. Sounds like she's interested, but too busy to pursue. Why dont you get adirect with her? tell her when you talk " hey So lets meetup on x. Ive been so exhausted from running around all wekk and I need some release. You sound like you could use a litttle too. Maybe a DEEP sensual massage and some fine caress for the both of us."
thats direct and pretty much to the point. try that with her. Worked for guy a.

plus right now, most people i know are tryin to save money. No time for dates, they jus want sex

[Guest]

[quote1228317626=Just/Us]
Hmmm, I have a similar dilemma. There is a girl that goes highly sexual at times and calles me names like hun, sweety, hottie, those things. Like once a week or so she will send me some kinda txt with these in there. I try and arrange a meetup, and she usually flakes the day of saying that she is too tired, or she had a long day at work or some shit. I think I need to lay down the rules with her and order her around. My plan is once I move into my new place away from parents to call her and tell (not ask) her to come over. If she makes excuses I will tell her I don't have time for flakes and games and to let me know when she is done wasting my time and I MIGHT give her another shot, and hang up. I think I have not laid down the rules and been strict enough with this chick, so she thinks its cool to flake, but she is the one that reinitiates the text convo after not talking to her for a few days. I think she is validation seeking, but at the same time wants me?

Any thoughts on that? I think that ties in with what you said earlier and needing to go more direct and strict.
[/quote1228317626]

I see girls do this quite frequently. I'm no expert, but I do understand that women use their "feelings" to guide their decision making process. Feelings are never the same from day to day so thats why i think you see them flip flop back and forth so much. In dealing with this type of behavior in the past I've usually gone in and been more "direct & strict" as you mentioned and seen positive results from it.

Here are a few real world examples:

Example 1: Had a girl who kept flirting with me on myspace for several weeks. She'd pour it on heavy, we'd flirt back and forth, then all the sudden she'd vanish. A week later she'd start it up again and the process would repeat. This went on for 2months. I told her I wanted to go out and then something would come up and I'd hear excuses as why she couldn't. Finally, one night she is on myspace the same time I am, so I send her a message that said "Hey silly girl, meet me for drinks tonight at 9...no excuses...lets just be friends, nothing else!"

Well we met up that night, talked about some crazy sexual stuff(3somes, her being into chics, anal sex, etc). It was almost like it took a lot of pressure off because I threw the "just friends" thing in there. That night she told me she couldn't believe the things she told me, but that she felt very comfortable in my presence. A few days later we were having sex.

Example 2: Met a stripper while I was at her club one night. Asked for her phone number and got it. A few days later I text her and she ignores me. 2months later she sees me in there and asked why I never called her! I'm thinking, WTF bitch and I honestly didn't recognize her at first. So I tell her to come see me at my table. She comes over, I lay on the direct seduction, then she starts to rape me and I end up fingering her in front of everybody.............and we both get kicked out. :-) So next thing I know she wants to go out so I make the arrangements to set it all up. She flakes and can't make it. So at this point I'm a little confused. I make sure that word gets out in our circle of friends that UncleHOwie doesn't tolerate flakey girls and he has plenty to go out with. Well she evidently got the message and is showing huge ioi like never b4. I'm having a weak moment, So I decide to ask her out one more time. I make it clear to her that I don't tolerate flakes and she was lucky she was getting a second chance. She agrees to go out and then flakes a second time. I'm convinced she truly does want to go out. As for the reason she keeps flaking I suspect it has to do with the guy she lives with. She says he's just a friend but I really don't buy that. The only time I hear from her is when she is at work, away from this "guy". Moral of the story, yeah when I got direct I got results, but end the end she's still a flakey emotional woman.

Just some thoughts.......
*I've learned that when girls use terms like: honey, babe, baby, cutie, sweetie, hottie, etc., that it doesn't always mean they see you in a sexual manner! Pay attention and see if you hear her using these terms towards other male acquaintances. Some girls are so sweet that they'd tell a 70year old balding fat man that he was a "sweetie" but mean nothing sexual by it.

*Girls got options, some will sit tight and wait for cream to rise to the top. Some girls need more convincing and want to see more of who you are b4 they let you seduce their panties right off their cute little butt cheeks! I never make "sex" my goal, smart girls will detect everytime.

*I've noticed that when I have more "options" out there, I tend to be a bit flakey myself. I'll text/email/talk to the point where it goes on for so long that they go crazy and will ask me out. Then I won't have time to take them out. I work, go to the gym, drive a long ass commute, get tired and don't have a lot of free time on my hands. So I get kind of picky and they really have to prove themselves to me b4 I allow them a piece of my time.

*Try and pay attention to the subtle hints that women give off. They are neat little creatures in the fact that most will let you know via body language/facial expressions/tonality what it is they are seeking. You just have to be sharp enough to pick up on it. I've found that "actions" typically do speak louder than "words"! Its the non-verbal cues that are critical. When I'm on a first date and sitting next to a woman I'll always watch how they position their body in relation to mine. If you are saying the right things, they'll start to move closer to you or start to rotate their body so they are facing you in more of a direct manner.

[Guest]

agreed that the personal greetings don't mean much... :)

just/us, lay down the law and move on if she doesn't comply... lots of women, no time to waste on flakes -- if she wants you she'll be back and comply, if not on to the next.

[Guest]

Solace,

Nice post. You are circling some very interesting concepts here. I am coming at this from a little different angle but here is my take (which might sound a bit rambling)..

I always try to think and act like a hot girl would. HB has an abundance of available sex options however she doesn't want to unnecessarily narrow the ones she deems as good potential candidates (nor does she typically have time to do so). Its just not that big of a deal because she knows they will be there when she wants them. HB has other more important things to worry about (her hair).

If you have good game you should have no trouble bouncing around a venue, talking to girls, etc.. In fact I see no reason why the aspiring PUA would not be engrossed with said activities at a busy venue, or at least chillin and chatting to people at the bar. This is one of the most important skills to gaming - being willing to put yourself out there fully, no intentions, and let the girls choose u ..

If a girl you like indicates interest as you game you have to assess her intentions and in particular the logistics for tonight (thats what I do anyway). Said intentions could be obvious or maybe you will have to work to find out. Either way this is needed information.

If the girl has an alternative fuck schedule then either screen her out (if you just want SNL) or, in most guys case, myspace/#close or whatever. She goes into that bucket. Now it is your job to maintain frame via text/email and manage the logistics when she is horny if you want to. Personally I like to just mess with them.

e.g. (text with girl you met at the bar)
me> whats up girlie?
HB> who is this, etc.. (ok lets not go thru the whole bullshit trail)
.
push/pull
.
HB> what are you doing tomorrow night?
me> I'm in San Fran until next week but I'll text u l8tr. Ciao..

Purposely don't give them much "face time" unless it benefits you. Drives them nuts.

Once you have HBs in the "text rotation" and the intention is clear to all involved this is great news. Secondarily you new also have instant energy cheat by texting some random shit to a few chicks while you are at the bar and pumping your own BT for interactions. Be creative and use whatever you can to gain an advantage. This is good for newer guys who don't have the composure to game without material.

e.g. "I think this chick is stalking me" .. (show text from HB). etc.. You can frame texts to look like crazy shit BTW if you are creative by asking loaded questions to HB on text.

One important point here .. these tactics are intended for "new" girls. If you already fucked her then you have all the power so the FRAME HAS CHANGED (assuming you are decent in bed and have not reverted back to any creepy behaviour). You might be best advised to FB her and only play on her horny schedule (why hang out when she is on PMS or on the rag). I am a believer in paying attention to menstruation cycles because chicks totally different depending on the time of the month. Either way you can have whatever you like since she has given it up now.

[Guest]

[quote1228324256=UncleHOwie]
*Try and pay attention to the subtle hints that women give off. They are neat little creatures in the fact that most will let you know via body language/facial expressions/tonality what it is they are seeking. You just have to be sharp enough to pick up on it. I've found that "actions" typically do speak louder than "words"! Its the non-verbal cues that are critical. When I'm on a first date and sitting next to a woman I'll always watch how they position their body in relation to mine. If you are saying the right things, they'll start to move closer to you or start to rotate their body so they are facing you in more of a direct manner.
[/quote1228324256]
Right on point Uncle Howie. Observe women always. They are an open book.

[Guest]

[quote1228324974=Solace]
Im not sure where this thread may go, but It is definitely relevant.

I wanna talk about understanding women. Not necessarily what they say, but understanding their thought processes and how to use them to our advantages. It is definitely a warranted skill. He who understands the woman, gets what he wants from her. Those who are clueless.... Well eventually they find themselves looking up seduction lairs and then become involved in the community.[/quote]

If they are lucky.

[quote]
So what do we know about women? That they are emotional. That they are naturally apt to succeed in any given social scenario, hence they become walking advertisements or scheisty PR's and sales managers. That they believe they have a power over men because "most" men will give them what they want, and will sway their own needs to assure the woman is comfortable, because after all it is hardwired into society that men will be providers and women will be on the receptive end of that deal.[/quote]

You speak as if every woman has a dominate role with every man, which is totally not the case. (Nearly) every woman craves a man who can, in some sense, be dominate over her. That's her programming. If she's able to push you around in a social scenario and typical conversation...then you're not strong enough for her...and you become a toy.

[quote]So how do we go about understanding their emotional thinking?[/quote]

Befriend some, and talk to them about stuff other than sex. Simple!

[quote] here is scenario A... completely fictitious but plausible. Girl decides to go out with her friends(girls night out or day out) and she's gone for a few hours and when she returns to her man she either has brought him something or jumps his bones for passionate/rough sex. Logically we would tell ourselves that she was sweet and thought about "guy" because thats what any woman does for a good man.... thats LOGICAL.... but chances are that while she was out paying complete disregard to the fact that she did have a man, something happened to slip thoughts of him back into her head. it could be any number of things. A song, an ad, a conversation that she had with her friends, a group of guys that approached and did not know how to carry things to the next level therefore leaving her thinking that she's lucky to have Guy A. (it seems scattered but I'm going somewhere with this)[/quote]

The same can be said for a guy. You can go out with the boys, men are very visual and therefore basically cannot help but look at all the eye candy passing to and fro, after having an extended thought about what HBpasserby looks like naked, you feel bad because your significant other is at home, and you go give her lovin' to make yourself feel better for the impure thoughts about another. This isn't understanding women, its understanding human nature. I do/think/feel something that seems kinda bad for one reason or another...well it's time to do something to make ME feel better about myself. Then there's the whole "I don't have morals or remorse for actions that hurt others" type of thing...but that's a completely different siuation...

[quote]Scenario b. a more familiar situation: guy approaches girl has a seemingly decent conversation in which a few IOI's were thrown about but at the first sign of escalation she immediately turns and flees. logically we could assume that guy might have been a bit creepy in his escalation, or that he had fouled up. but being that women are emotional that answer might not be as reasonable as to assume that mybe she realized she was late for something, that she had just gotten out of a bad relationship, her period started... the possibilities are endless.[/quote]

I don't see where this really relates, or is going. As you stated, this could very well be at the fault of the guy, not the "girl who goes through life aimlessly purely reacting to her emotions."

[quote]Heres a situation happening to a guy I know. he's trying to gain rapport but she keeps throwing a wrench in the mix. he's doing a gentle escalation but she pushes him back into ljbf category. He talks about her, she talks about another guy. His game plan is foiled unless he changes it up. She responded well to the approach. She gladly set up the date and flirts via text. but her other signs are fucking him up. Guy A might say he fucked up and count the day 2 offf as a loss. But instead guy A recognizes the pattern. He makes a bold move she's receptive. He tries to take the scenic route, she strays. Guy changes it up to full direct mode. Cuts the bullshit and she follows suit. he closes her. Days later guy initiates indirectly. no response. next day he repeats. she repeats. 3rd day guy says come over. she responds immediately. Now based on all the following information we can assume that this girl is very sexual. you cant tell from what she's verbally saying and literalize it. But from her pattern of response, we can tell that she is DTF( down to fuck) So there is a very apparent pattern here but is is something most girls would replicate? [/quote]

She's submissive. She is not turned on by beating around the bush, innuendo, or any other indirect verbal foreplay. I've got a girl right now that is this way. If she's IM'ing me while I'm at work and someone is watching/potentially looking at my screen, I have no choice but to make indirect sexual comments...conversation is flat as day old Dr. Pepper. I love to use the line, "I know all your favorite spots...and tonight we'll connect the dots..." but that's not direct enough for her. "I wanna kiss the inside of your thighs." and the like get the job done. Most girls who like direct shit like this have/had/crave a strong father figure, and they just respond to it over timid stuff. Recognize and calibrate.

[quote]What does the opposite end of the spectrum look like? Guy approaches girl she is leery of his motions. Guy initiates day 2 she needs convincing. She eats up rapport time and craves more and jus when you interpret her ioi's as sexual and grab her by the back of the head she punches you and tells you she's not a slut?[/quote]

If she's leery of his motions (I'm assuming you mean this to say he's moving around like Tyrone Biggums) then initiating day 2 is the last thing he needs to do. In fact, that would be skipping attraction, comfort, hell maybe even an actual conversation. The interaction would NEVER get to the point of initiating a Day 2 if she's put off by the way he moves about. That's when the internal rape whistle goes off in a girls head.

[quote]What are some basic/ immediate signs girls display when you begin to catergorize them as sexual or nonsexual? IM AWARE THERE ARE CATEGORIES IN BETWEEN (caps sucks) but for those of you with experience, when would you draw the line and say i need to be this guy because she is that girl? are there any specific linear clues that girls drop over and over again to the fact that they are "the" type that we should aim our efforts @?
[/quote1228324974][/quote]

Tons of signs for each...look at the way she does her hair, how she dresses, her body language towards you when you talk to her, touch her, her body language when men pass her by, she is/is not afraid to make eye contact with you at any point, and hold it for longer than a second...the list goes on. You can tell a woman is a tad more timid by basically the same stuff...dresses more conservatively, will shy away when you look directly at her, doesn't have a strong frame when you talk to her, prefers to cross her arms and hold her drink rather than display the ladies, fast speech pace, high pitched tonality, looks at her friends for approval of actions, etc etc etc. This doesn't mean she isn't sexual, nor does it mean you can't get her and find out she'll fuck in positions you've never even though of...it just means she's not a obvious about it. I actually prefer the good girl type...freak in the sheets, lady on the streets. I don't like my women to flaunt super sexual vibes from coast to coast...oops...tangent.

In short, I think categorizing women is a personal thing. What is a weak insecure woman to me might be a bitch-shield-in-full-force strong framed vixen to you. Just like the HB1 - 10 scale...it's diff for every dude. ta ta for now sir!

-DangerJosh