Request for feedback regarding a possible LTR

[Guest]

Here is a situation I would like feedback on. I met this girl through a school related activity and ran into her at the bar one night. At the time I wasn’t really that attracted to her but she was fun so I talked with her quite a bit. She was all over me and it was clear that she had a crush on me. At the end of the night, she invited me over to her place and the only reason I went was because I thought others would be there. Turns out it was just us. I didn’t want to mess around with her due to the activity that we were both in but I was drunk and we ended up getting naked and I fingered her. Pretty tame stuff but she told me she was a virgin. I interacted with her at this mutual activity but never flirted with her.

That was about 2 weeks ago. I then ran into her the weekend before last and for some reason realized that I actually may like this girl. I didn’t go home with her that night because I was with a friend from out of town. The next day though I sent the following messages using Carmel’s baiting strategy to get a girl on a date.

Me: I trust you didn’t pick a fight or vandalize anything on the way home
Her: Haha no…but I did throw a fit when I found out taco bell was closed…
Me: LOL u would :P what is there in the way of iced cream around here?
Her: Haha what? Your question didn’t make sense
Me:I I wanna try some ice cream
Her: Haha cant go wrong with ice cream. What make you want to branch out?
Me: I like trying new things.
Her: They have unusual flavors fo cream and you can mix basically any candy or fruit in it. Soo good!!
Me: Ok u convinced me :) come with me and edumacate me
Her: I would love to but when are you going?
Me: Sometime after dinner…prob 7 or 8
Her: Sounds good but I do have initiation practice at 7, but hopefully it wont be for more than an hour
Me: Cool, come by when you are done and I can drive [put in my address]

We went on the date and then came back to my place. We made out but she kind of cut if off a couple times. I think she was tentative because of her lack of experience and the fact that i have ignored her after the last 2 times. I know I am supposed to end it but I didn’t feel like playing games. I tried really hard to focus on comfort. She ended up leaving to study after an hour or so. A few hours later she texted: “Hey thanks again for the ice cream. I hope you enjoyed it! I had fun!

I texted her a few days later with some banter and then talked to her about 3 days after that on the phone. I didn’t make an attempt to set up another date because I am playing it slow. Then, yesterday, I texted her with the intentions of getting her out. Her responses were more delayed than last time but this was also the middle of a school day and extending to the evening when the greek houses are preparing for some play they put on. This meant the convo took most of the day because I was mirroring her response times. I would say the average response came in about an hour.

Me: My dog went on a field trip yesterday LOL
Her: Haha did her? What kind of field trip?
Me: He came with me to petco
Her: Ohh precious!
Me: I know. We should hang out this week
Her: (3 hours later) We should!
Me: When r u free?
Her: Honestly can we raincheck it until next week? I’m really busy this week…
Me: Only if you bring a rare gift ;)…I am pretty swamped too
Her: Haha what is a rare gift
Me: Be creative! A dinosaur egg would work

I do think she is being honest about being busy so I plan to back off for several days and then just banter when I text again. At the same time, it is difficult to play it cool because I think I like this one. [b]Please let me know what you think of my overall texts and if you have any suggestions for how to play it from here if I want a relationship.[/b] Thanks,
-Sal

[Guest]

dude sounds like you got her jus where you want her. dont let her pussy games fool you. you will get bored jus like in every other relationship, so tunnel vision this occurrence. if you strap her down for a few months then youll set back your skills a shit ton. which is more valuable to you? puadom or the loss of skills and a whirlwind relationship?

[Guest]

Man, it's about getting what YOU want from the situation, not what one of us tells you that you should want. A man can drive himself insane trying to play to what everyone expects him to be.

Sal, ask yourself, "what do I want from this girl?" Ask yourself, "what is in my best interests? what is wise to do?"

I dont have the answer for you. YOU have the answer to this.

[Guest]

[quote1227161569=Sal Paradise]
Here is a situation I would like feedback on. I am not the best at getting into relationships with girls and I met one I would like to try to date for awhile. I’m sure people will tell me to avoid relationships but I am much more experienced with cold approach and casual sex than with monogamous relationships so I would like to develop some skill in this area. Here is the background:


I do think she is being honest about being busy so I plan to back off for several days and then just banter when I text again. At the same time, it is difficult to play it cool because I think I like this one. [b]Please let me know what you think of my overall texts and if you have any suggestions for how to play it from here if I want a relationship.[/b] Thanks,
-Sal
[/quote1227161569]

Hrmm is that kinda a selfish reason to expand your experience in a relationship. Remember you are toying with another person's emotions and life.

From what I have read you are pretty successful in the game department. So clearly you have met a lot of girls. What is it about this girl that you like that the other girls didn't have? I have a feeling it has something to do with her being a virgin. In fact is this the only girl that hasn't slept with you? I know that adds value to you liking her. Everyone wants what they can't have.

Now outside of sex and the fact that she is a virgin if you really find qualities in this girl this hell yeah pursue it. I see no other point of getting good at game then to find someone you can have a relationship with. Outisde of maybe just being single and getting laid like a rockstar the rest of your life.

I see nothing wrong with the way you have handled this. I would say that you maybe could have pushed lunch this week. Something quick and easy but allows you to spend an hour with her. This is the kinda stuff you do with a girl you are dating. It also helps to set more of a relationship frame. Also have a day or night with this girl where you guys just talk. Kino doesn't need to take place. Booze are unnecessary. Don't make out with her or try to push for any sorta sexual activity. This will also help to set more of a relationship frame. Be sitting directly across from her a few feet away so you guys can make really good eye contact and you can watch her BL and facial expressions.

[Guest]

I think your text's are great. You directed the conversation, they were funny, and you didn't come across as needy at all. Nice job.

For me the best way to play it cool with a girl I like is to have others as well........at least in the beginning. You just don't have the time to direct all of your energy and feelings towards one female.
As a result they'll end up working harder for your affection.
Afterall, you are the prize so may the best girl win.

I think its great you are considering a relationship. There aren't a lot of girls out there that I'd consider relationship material. Take a look at what you need/want in a relationship and think about what she has to offer. You might even ask her those same questions. Is she looking for something long term? I've always thought that its a good idea to date someone that brings the same amount of "value" to the table as you do.

Ask yourself "is she better than all the girls in my past"? If not, then keep looking.

[Guest]

[quote1227201376=playercool]
[quote1227161569=Sal Paradise]
Here is a situation I would like feedback on. I am not the best at getting into relationships with girls and I met one I would like to try to date for awhile. I’m sure people will tell me to avoid relationships but I am much more experienced with cold approach and casual sex than with monogamous relationships so I would like to develop some skill in this area. Here is the background:


I do think she is being honest about being busy so I plan to back off for several days and then just banter when I text again. At the same time, it is difficult to play it cool because I think I like this one. [b]Please let me know what you think of my overall texts and if you have any suggestions for how to play it from here if I want a relationship.[/b] Thanks,
-Sal
[/quote1227161569]

Hrmm is that kinda a selfish reason to expand your experience in a relationship. Remember you are toying with another person's emotions and life.

From what I have read you are pretty successful in the game department. So clearly you have met a lot of girls. What is it about this girl that you like that the other girls didn't have? I have a feeling it has something to do with her being a virgin. In fact is this the only girl that hasn't slept with you? I know that adds value to you liking her. Everyone wants what they can't have.

Now outside of sex and the fact that she is a virgin if you really find qualities in this girl this hell yeah pursue it. I see no other point of getting good at game then to find someone you can have a relationship with. Outisde of maybe just being single and getting laid like a rockstar the rest of your life.

I see nothing wrong with the way you have handled this. I would say that you maybe could have pushed lunch this week. Something quick and easy but allows you to spend an hour with her. This is the kinda stuff you do with a girl you are dating. It also helps to set more of a relationship frame. Also have a day or night with this girl where you guys just talk. Kino doesn't need to take place. Booze are unnecessary. Don't make out with her or try to push for any sorta sexual activity. This will also help to set more of a relationship frame. Be sitting directly across from her a few feet away so you guys can make really good eye contact and you can watch her BL and facial expressions.


[/quote1227201376]
Agreed 100%

[Guest]

It may have came across that I am just trying to use her for experience sake, but that is not what my intentions are. I do think part of it may be that I haven't fucked her yet but I don't think it is the entire story.

Solace, honestly at this point I think a relationship would be more valuable to me. I may be set back a bit but there I things I have learned that I will never forget and if things don't work out with this one girl I think a couple weeks of intense gaming will put me back where I am now. Plus, I plan on actively gaming other girls until the point we become exclusive (if that happens).

Fenix, I have thought about what I want and the answer is a relationship. I completely agree that it doesn't matter what others think in this area. The area I want advice on is how to make that happen.

PC, that makes total sense. Basically you act the way that I have trained myself not to act. In other words, I am used to acting in a way that avoids all relationship frames but now I need to go back to some of those frames. At the same time I need to continue to generate attraction and bring value to keep the chemistry there.

Howie, I agree totally. I do plan on gaming other girls in the meantime.

A final point, I do tend to overestimate how much I like a girl in the beginning so I am not positive my current feelings will last. Only time will tell.

[Guest]

Sal, if you're anything like me, and probably everyone else on the board, framing for a relationship shouldn't be something that you actively have to do.

Every single girl that I decided to keep around has wanted to stay LONGER. I've almost always been the one to dump or cut ties, very rarely was it the other way around. I think it has to do with the fact that my dick tastes like chocolate, but I digress.

The fact is that you should do exactly the same things that you are doing now. I personally think frame projection is overrated, I have my reasons but the only real viable frame one can build is an internal frame.

I would contend that the thing that attracted her to you in the first place is the internal frame that you've built for yourself. When you start thinking relationship, you're going to destroy the frame that has made you successful and has made you attractive to her. So, why even start thinking about framing at all? Doesn't make sense.

This is coming from a guy in a similar situation, or was in a similar situation. I'm openly in an LTR. But, I never ONCE framed her or changed my frame. And the thing that she adores the most about me is the fact that she can tell that my thought process, my ideology, my frame have not changed one bit since the day we met. I did not once change to suit her needs unless that's something I WANTED to do, and when you care you do want to make some concessions. She met a PUA, she's spent a lot of time with a PUA, now she's in an LTR with a PUA.

So, the conversation shouldn't be how do I frame a relationship. The conversation should be how do I continue to have the frame I have now (a big part of that frame is that you're a PUA) and not act on the fear of her not wanting an LTR.

You see, when I see that you want to frame an LTR it tells me that you want her to think of you in those terms BUT it also tells me that you are a little scared that your internal frame may not be enough for her so you're going to stack the deck. It is our internal strength that appeals to women. It is the light that draws the moth. Beginning the mental exercise of thinking about how to frame her into wanting an LTR is the beginning of you loosing this strength, it is your strength that defines you. It is your, our, greatest asset.

So, I pose this question to you. If girls we pull typically always want to be around us, then why should you ever change anything? Why should you HAVE to project a frame?

I would suggest that you focus less on her world and pay more attention to continuing to be the strong, attractive, man of value and action that she thinks, or feels, you are. Your frame should simply be you giving her the opportunity to be in your world. You lose this dynamic when you start thinking about other people's world...and no one wants to be around someone who's world is defined by others.

Good luck, not that you need it bro...

[Guest]

Great point BR! I have definately continued to be myself in relation to her and I constantly tease her. I believe if I keep up what I have going I will be in good shape but you never know. I will keep you all updated.

[Guest]

Here is the continuing saga. After her rainchecking last time, I texted her 3 days later and just bantered which went well. Then, 4 days after that, her responses started getting shorter.

Me: Hey there
Her: (2.5 hours later) What’s going on?
Me: (3 hours later) I just bought my first piece of real furniture!

She didn’t respond at all to this. I then waited until Thanksgiving to text her and sent:

Me: Happy TURKEY day! Cranberries, canned or real? Go!
Her: Haha happy thanksgiving to you!!
Me: My uncle gave me a great idea for my next adventure!
Her: What?
Me: Hang gliding! And they offer it through the school
Her: Haha do it

Clearly not much interest from her. I decided to call her on Sunday to try to figure out one way or the other what is going on. She didn’t call me back that day or the next so I assumed it was over. Then I got a text from her Monday night saying:

Her: Hi!!! Omg! I forgot to call you back yesterday! I’m eating dinner right now and just remembered! What are you doing?
Me: (2 hours later) just fixin some pics I took…The break was so FUN :)
Her: (3 hours later) Good! What did you do?
Me: Tampered with fine art ;-) actually ran into 12 people I haven’t seen since high school. U?
Her: Fun! Ohh just went out and saw a ton of people I have seen in a while
Me: Im kinda busy this week but we should meet up for a bit
Her: For sure! I am busy too…Just let me know when!
Me: I could do thurs and maybe wed what about u
Her: I can’t do Thursday…I could maybe do something Wednesday depending on how much I get done tonight. So just give me a call tomorrow and I will see!

I then called her in the afternoon today and told her two funny stories to get her laughing. After that I asked about tonight. She said she had bad news: she had to go to a B day party for a friend (she even mentioned specifics) and that she shouldn’t even be going to that because she is so busy (it is the week before finals this week). I played it off and talked for a bit and was the first to get off the phone.

I am completely confused right now. It seems like she is interested at times and then almost ignores me at others. She acts excited about hanging out but then says she is too busy. What do you guys think is going on? I think I will try one more time in a few days to set something up and then just next her because I am sick of this BS. BTW, this is not a case of oneitis because I am still pursuing other girls and I would almost rather blow my chances with this girl just to figure out what is going on. I am considering just being completely open with her and saying that she is giving me mixed messages and I am curious what is going on. Please let me know what you all think. Thanks,
-Sal