Dallas PUA

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/personal/09/26/o.improve.your.marriage/index.html[/url]

bingo. good article man.

Having been in a very successful marriage until the end, I can't agree with much that the article has to say. First off its from Opra Winfreys website and written by a bunch of women which makes it very much one sided. Since when did women think with logic needed in problem solving anyways. If "discussion" is the fastest way to shut down communication then why all the recommendations for counseling to help solve problems??? Last I checked "discussion" was the QUICKEST way to start communication. No matter who you are dealing with. Not discussing is some fucked up advice/opinion.

The demise of my own marriage started when we quit discussing, so I can't agree with much of anything this article has to say.


[blockquote]To illustrate the point, Love tells the story of an afternoon when she and her husband were lying in bed naked after showering. "I was wondering if he'd initiate sex, when all of a sudden in my mind I crossed over to his side of the bed and got a sense of what it was like to be him, never knowing if he's going to be accepted or rejected. It was terrifying. I understood then how deeply ashamed that must make him feel," she recalls. "It was an epiphany that changed my life." She immediately began emphasizing compassion in her work with clients, and has come to believe -- as does Stosny -- that it's even more crucial to the success of a long-term relationship than love.[/blockquote]

Oh boy, a woman actually attempts to walk in our shoes for once and sees how fucked up it is. Puuhleazzz Bitch you don't have a clue!
You know, if guys just sat there and "wondered" when a woman would initiate sex there wouldn't be any sex!!!
Men constantly go through dealings with women knowing very well "rejection" is something they'll have to face. I rarely see a woman initiate anything!!!! When it comes to sex, dating, etc, its almost always the man who has to expose himself. Women don't ask men to marry them, women rarely ask men out on dates, women rarely contact men on dating sites, women don't initiate sex like guys do. I'd say guys are pretty damn good at dealing with issues of acceptance.

[blockquote]Boys and men, however, need to pull away. A man's greatest suffering, Stosny says, comes from the shame he feels when he doesn't measure up -- which is why discussing relationship problems (i.e., what he's doing wrong) offers about as much comfort as sleeping on a bed of nails. [/blockquote]

I see just as many women that are uncomfortable discussing relationship problems! I'd have to say this is a woman's greatest suffering as well.

Men don't read women's minds very well, there's really no perfect method for dealing with a creature that is so illogical in thought processes. So if you aren't supposed to discuss, and reading minds is never that successful then how do you get to the bottom of the issues??????

I disagree howie... the article may take it a bit too far... I don't think the article is saying you should never discuss stuff... but the fact is most women WAYYY overdo it and want to constantly overanalyze things.

Maybe your marriage was not typical? I know BOTH of the quotes from your post were issues for me in my marriage. She would use sex as a weapon when she didn't want to have sex and make excuses not to when I wanted to - I got tired of being rejected repeatedly by my wife and basically stopped iniatiating. Then later she complained that I wasn't doing so and she wasn't getting it enough -- DUH. And as far as the 'measuring up', when she wanted to 'discuss' things, it was never the 10 things I did right but the 1 that wasn't done right (or the way she wanted) - end result, I basically felt like I was never good enough for her in the end because most of our 'discussions' were her bitching me out for not being perfect. If I addressed the one thing she had a problem with, it was always something else. When I told her I wanted to split up of course she said it was never that way and that I was always good enough for her, etc etc... but by that point the damage was already done.

I don't think it's a matter of 'women shouldn't do this' but 'women shouldn't take this TOO far', which most do in my experience. Most way overanalyze, overworry, etc. A lot of women guys here don't consider 'quality' personality wise is because of issues like this -- way too needy, worrisome, and expect the guy to be their girlfriend that they endlessly bitch about life to.

Now a certain part of those issues fall on the man as well... for example with my ex we jumped into things wayyy too quickly and had i taken more time I would have learned these things about her... and there are definitely things I would do definitely given it to do again... but I found the article in general rung true for me for my marriage experience and when I listen to my best friend bitch about what's going on in his marriage, it's usually stuff like this (more the overanalysis than the sex part)

Talking to my married friends tho I hear most of the same complaints about the way women act -- I think you were just in an atypical good marriage howie that went south when she cheated :)

I don't know anything about marriage... but may i say...
I wouldn't listen to women for dating/relationship advices because they sure don't have any idea what they want. Especially from Oprah website lol.

Justice, you are probably right. I for sure didn't have a woman that over-analyzed. She definitely wasn't needy and rarely worried. All my buddies thought she was the best thing on earth.

I'm curious Howie....did you find the community after your marital problems ...or did you know about it before?

Found it after. Had a buddy that is a natural tell me about pua and sites like this one. I wish I would have known about it before. There's some things in pua that can be applied to marriage.

I totally agree......I see now all kinds of mistakes I made in past relationships that I didn't understand before learning about this stuff

triple agree on that one :) definitely stuff in PUA that will serve you will in a marriage/LTR.