How Not to do kino escalation

[Guest]

I saw a guy this weekend who was groping a chick in a bar. Man it was horrible. He looked like he was pretty well drunk off his ass as well.
A pretty brunette was really being creeped out by that guy and if he had backed off a little, it might have gone better for him.

I felt inspired to write some of the stuff I do when doing kino and it might help someone out there.

1. Touch lightly and early. I think most gurus tell you this. You touch the arm, the shoulder, you do handshakes or the rock. You do this in a playful way.

2. You do slight takeaways. Ar times, you gotta hold back and go "ok...that's all you get." or do backturns.
Watch her body language for cues to this.

3. If she's into it and she likes it keep going. Women and people in general like to be stoked and petted. Green means go so don't get squeemish when the time is right.

4. If she is resistant, just stop. Seriously stop. Don't be like the poor sob I saw the other night. Groping is weird and makes you creepy.
Don't pout either. You're not a 2 yr old.

5. Boundaries. Always keep this in mind. People have social boundaries and boundaries for lovers. You want to keep invading the inner terrirory but back off if its weird. Rapport helps immensely.
A friend of mine does and extended handshake and if she likes it, she will let him keep shaking her hand. If she pulls back, he pulls back.

6. Mirroring and Matching. This is NLP.Study some well documented stuff online or get some books on the subject.
If a woman starts mirroring your gestures, then its on. Its rapport.

7. Some girls will get more into it with eye contact or proximity.

8. Look for reciprocity. Does she touch you as well? You can ask her to do that. Girls sometimes need direction.

[Guest]

I was out last night when some of the guys and my ex tagged along. There was some other community guy there from Austin.

This guy was kinoing the shit outta my ex. I watched from a distance just thinking how he was blowing himself out. She comes up to me and goes that guy is really creeping me out. I thought he was cool at first but now I think he is weird and I don't want to talk to him.

Kino is so overrated IMO. Just do a very very very small amount of kino. When you shake her hand do it for a few seconds longer than you would normally shake her hand. Then from there she will give you signs if you can advance. But really it isn't neccessary. I think most guys will get blown out by doing Kino way before they do themselves any good.

I'm a firm believer in less is more.

I will rephrase this just a little better.

You have a certain chance with a girl if you don't fuck up. You WON'T fuck up if you don't Kino a ton.
You WILL fuck up if you OVER Kino.

So why give yourself a chance of fucking up.

[Guest]

I'd agree. Touch very very lightly at first. At first touch, but don't grab, even if it's a shoulder or elbow.

And reciprocity is key. If she touches you back, it's on, and escalate. If she's not touching back, cool it.

Once you flip the "creepy" signal, it's very hard to un-flip.

[Guest]

[quote1222373486=Vector]
Once you flip the "creepy" signal, it's very hard to un-flip.
[/quote1222373486]

That couldn't be more true.
I'm a firm believer that it's possible to recover from ...almost... anything (whether or not you have the skill is the question).
However, I've creeped out girls before (I'm sure we all have), and I've never been able to recover from that.

I'm sure its usually possible....but no doubt pretty tough.
(of course, 'Its possible' is a pretty bold statement....as with most concepts in gaming, its always dependent on the situation at hand)

[Guest]

My Kino Commandments:

1. Shaking one's hand doth not kino make
2. Thou shalt not kino unless thy have been kinoed
3. If kino is returned thou musth escalate

Seriously though, I've got a comment on each of your points Trib:

[color=#ff0000]I saw a guy this weekend who was groping a chick in a bar. Man it was horrible. He looked like he was pretty well drunk off his ass as well.
A pretty brunette was really being creeped out by that guy and if he had backed off a little, it might have gone better for him.[/color]

I hope the guy you saw wasn't me. I was hammered most of the night last Saturday.

[color=#ff0000]
1. Touch lightly and early. I think most gurus tell you this. You touch the arm, the shoulder, you do handshakes or the rock. You do this in a playful way.[/color]

Totally disagree. I can count on one hand how many successful pulls I've seen or had that had kino early on. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a guy start kino only to get blown out. This is why a lot of guys come off as creepy, just like PC said about the guy from last night (although I thought he was a pretty cool cat).

[color=#ff0000]2. You do slight takeaways. Ar times, you gotta hold back and go "ok...that's all you get." or do backturns.
Watch her body language for cues to this.

3. If she's into it and she likes it keep going. Women and people in general like to be stoked and petted. Green means go so don't get squeemish when the time is right.

4. If she is resistant, just stop. Seriously stop. Don't be like the poor sob I saw the other night. Groping is weird and makes you creepy.
Don't pout either. You're not a 2 yr old.[/color]

I agree with all of the above.

[color=#ff0000]6. Mirroring and Matching. This is NLP.Study some well documented stuff online or get some books on the subject.
If a woman starts mirroring your gestures, then its on. Its rapport.[/color]

NLP is a joke. But there is some truth to this, kind of. Interestingly enough, I've read that the cause of mirroring is that you're actually in rapport. Read Emotional Intelligence for more details. Studies have shown that when two people are in rapport their bodies begin to react to the rapport, their heartbeat, breathing, and BL start to mimic each other. There are even chemicals (much like pheromones) that are released and processed by the brain that causes this. So, does mirroring create rapport or does rapport create mirroring? The mere fact that they're related means that you may be able to mirror someone and 'trick' the mind into feeling rapport, but I'm not sure it works that way for sure.

[color=#ff0000]
8. Look for reciprocity. Does she touch you as well? You can ask her to do that. Girls sometimes need direction.[/color]

This should be point number one. And it should read: "Has she touched you at all? If so, then you need to follow suit." I would never ask a girl to do anything, especially touch you. No matter how shy she is, she's going to let you know she likes you with a touch (assuming it's socially acceptable given the circumstances). If it's not socially acceptable and you ask then you look really, really creepy.

Kino is widely misunderstood by the Community.

[Guest]

OK my view on this:

The last two nights in a row I've been out I've gotten random bar makeouts with random girls i don't know within SECONDS of meeting them, and they both have flaked out now. So maybe that's saying something.

My opinion on kino is this...the game is about fucking and sex. it's not a talking game. so kino IS THE GAME.

Trib, good post, but I would add one thing....BUYING TEMP. Kino escalate when you have a high level of energy. That is SO fucking key.

I'm the kind of person who likes to just go for shit. I like to go straight direct, I like to take what i want, i like to fuck, and i'm a fucking animal.

I think kino is fun, I always do a ton of kino. I can see the other side of the coin on this one and where PC and Bullrun and Vector are coming from, however I must respectfully disagree as far as my own game is concerned, mention that what I do works for me, and leave it at that.

[Guest]

I've come to the conclusion through field trials you can pull off any kino you want with enough congruence, confidence and body language.

obviously this is calibrated kino.

and there aren't any limits as long as its properly calibrated.

[Guest]

most girls are used to guys who are afraid to touch them....I agree...a confident Kino pattern with gently pushing limits escalation turns women on....

[Guest]

[quote1222440108=grimm1111]My opinion on kino is this...the game is about fucking and sex. it's not a talking game. so kino IS THE GAME.

Trib, good post, but I would add one thing....BUYING TEMP. Kino escalate when you have a high level of energy. That is SO fucking key.

I'm the kind of person who likes to just go for shit. I like to go straight direct, I like to take what i want, i like to fuck, and i'm a fucking animal.

I think kino is fun, I always do a ton of kino. I can see the other side of the coin on this one and where PC and Bullrun and Vector are coming from, however I must respectfully disagree as far as my own game is concerned, mention that what I do works for me, and leave it at that.[/quote1222440108]


Again Grimm you mix in the just the right amount of agreement and dissent. I understand exactly where you're coming from and using direct Game I can see how it can work for you.

But, consider this. The next time you go out break down the successful and unsuccessful interactions into two groups:

1) The ones that touched you first

AND

2) The ones that you touched first

I will contend that your success rate is much, much higher in the former than the latter.

The interesting thing to note is that a girl will touch you almost IMMEDIATELY upon the approach if she's attracted to you. I've run sets before in which I didn't even get any words out before they were stroking my arm. And, a lot of the time, they don't even know they're doing it!!!!

I think that's the point that Vector, PC, and I are trying to make. You greatly reduce your chances of being creepy if you wait for her to touch you first. I'm not saying that being the first to touch can't work, I'm just saying that I believe the odds are stacked against you.

Once the first touch occurs, then it does become about kino escalation and raising her buying temperature.

[Guest]

I will go ahead and touch on my post just a little more here so there isn't such conflicting opinions.

What I said was in reference to early in the interaction. There just isn't much need for Kino.

If the interaction is going well...which will be easy to tell...then you can start and should Kino escalate. I still don't recommend going overboard though. But that is also coming from the fact that I have done ten times better if I don't Kclose a girl at the venue.

And with that being said you can see why I am not a big believer in a large amount of Kino. But when the time is right (Which I believe is outside of the venue in some manner) you should be ready to heavily escalate.