I'm an Asshole...

[Guest]

So I am trying to figure something out here.

Do girls really like assholes? I mean I know on the surface they don't. Of course they don't who wants to date a real asshole. But clearly to some degree they like a guy who isn't a pushover and is going to put them in check on occasion.

So if your not an asshole then you are a Nice Guy correct? You know the guy who does anything for her. The guy who bends over backwards to make her wishes and demands come true. You know the guy who she cheats on...

Fine so she doesn't want to date the Asshole...but at the same time she doesn't want the Nice Guy.

Where is the middle ground? Do you approve of the middle ground? Do you live the middle ground? What the fuck is the middle ground? Or is it skewed to one side or the other of the sprectrum to some degree.

And understand that when I ask this question I realize all girls are different. I am speaking in terms of generalities.

See my problem is lately I have been hearing PC you are such an Asshole. Or you are such a Dick. And yeah in the beginning these remarks are just her terms of endearment. She is telling me she is attracted to me a little more each time she utters those words. But ultimately if I like the girl I don't want to be an asshole. Even if it is some pretend act that I portray to build attraction.

I don't ask this to change who I am. I ask to make me a better person and maybe those reading the responses. I want who I ultimately end up with to be treated correctly without me giving her too much rope and she hangs herself or me.

And here is the real reason I pose this question. I had a conversation with this girl recently. She was telling me about this guy she was dating who was a true gentlemen. She told me that honey attracts flies. See she knows the little game I play. She knows what I am about. She was basically saying why don't you drop it and be like that guy. I am just not sure you can be like that with most girls and do good. Maybe the game has messed with my head a little and the truth is you can.

How do you picture yourself in these regards?

[Guest]

I think a thread BR posted in the lounge touches on this nicely.

To me the middle ground is to be a MAN who is sure of himself, leads the interaction, is decisive, not needy, has his shit together, doesn't put up with bullshit, exudes sexuality and is capable of a thoughtful surprise FROM TIME TO TIME (that isn't creepy or the act of a pussy). I think you can treat someone well without being their bitch or spoiling the fuck out of them.

People like good things, but not all the time. Think about your favorite food or something you really enjoy. If you have it every day it becomes less special and you even get tired of it. The old saying goes, for every hot girl there is some guy who is tired of fucking her. Halle Berry has been dumped and cheated on multiple times. I think they key is to have the above qualities and not treat a girl so well you get taken for granted.

The good news (or maybe the bad news) for the nice guys is that time is the great equalizer. For a lot of girls I think timing is everything. Eventually people get tired of the game and are ready to settle down. I've known several girls who got into a very serious LTR or got married just because of timing. It wasn't really that the guy was anything exceptional. These girls just came to a point in their life where they were ready to be treated well. I really believe that they would have wound up with anyone who was there at the right place at the right time. I think the guys are interchangeable. Eventually people just get burned out and want something less challenging with more comfort (if they can't find "the one"). Are these girls settling? Probably, but the last I heard they were relatively happy (at least on the surface).

[Guest]

[quote1222228841=playercool]
So I am trying to figure something out here.

Do girls really like assholes? I mean I know on the surface they don't. Of course they don't who wants to date a real asshole. But clearly to some degree they like a guy who isn't a pushover and is going to put them in check on occasion.

So if your not an asshole then you are a Nice Guy correct? You know the guy who does anything for her. The guy who bends over backwards to make her wishes and demands come true. You know the guy who she cheats on...

Fine so she doesn't want to date the Asshole...but at the same time she doesn't want the Nice Guy.

Where is the middle ground? Do you approve of the middle ground? Do you live the middle ground? What the fuck is the middle ground? Or is it skewed to one side or the other of the sprectrum to some degree.

And understand that when I ask this question I realize all girls are different. I am speaking in terms of generalities.

See my problem is lately I have been hearing PC you are such an Asshole. Or you are such a Dick. And yeah in the beginning these remarks are just her terms of endearment. She is telling me she is attracted to me a little more each time she utters those words. But ultimately if I like the girl I don't want to be an asshole. Even if it is some pretend act that I portray to build attraction.

I don't ask this to change who I am. I ask to make me a better person and maybe those reading the responses. I want who I ultimately end up with to be treated correctly without me giving her too much rope and she hangs herself or me.

And here is the real reason I pose this question. I had a conversation with this girl recently. She was telling me about this guy she was dating who was a true gentlemen. She told me that honey attracts flies. See she knows the little game I play. She knows what I am about. She was basically saying why don't you drop it and be like that guy. I am just not sure you can be like that with most girls and do good. Maybe the game has messed with my head a little and the truth is you can.

How do you picture yourself in these regards?


[/quote1222228841]



yeah PC, I feel you on this one.
I am nice guy inside, but I have to hide it to attract women. That is who I am, but now I have to force myself to be an asshole who is not a pushover.
It is easy to make food plain or too salty. Making it "just right" is hard to do. Sometimes you need teaspoons to do so. I mean it's just hard to be "just right asshole."
I still am having hard time figuring out the right amount of "asshole sauce" and "nice sauce" on my food.
I want to be naturally in the middle ground. If I find a way to do so, I will def. let you know.

[Guest]

I know a few nice guys (several of my friends)
Hell I'd say I used to be one...like we're talkin the will-do-whatever-makes-you-happy-babe type.
I'm not going to call myself an asshole now...but I'm definitely not the same guy I was before.

However, looking back, I still think that alot of the 'nice-guy' crap I used to do with girls actually did work for me.
But alot of it also didnt....I lacked the "independent asshole" aspect....so getting what they wanted anytime they wanted it got old and probably a little annoying even.

One of my friends, who is easily the epitome of nice-guy, just recently got engaged to a pretty hot and really high-value girl.
This is a guy who has always fallen face-first for girls he liked as long as I've known him (middle school).
He could rarely keep his crushes a secret...and when he did wind up with one of the girls he liked, he'd always put them on a crazy high pedestal and do whatever he thought pleased them.
The concept of turning down a girlfriend for a night out with the guys wouldn't even be a question in his mind....girlfriends always came first.

Truth is up until now, he never really did well with girls at all. He'd always get dumped, if not just simply rejected before ever even going on a date. Oddly enough, he hasn't changed, but he's still landed quite a catch.

I've also known several assholes.
A guy I knew a couple years was a pretty big asshole....talkin like real fuckwad disrespectful status here.
I actually felt sorry for his girlfriend sometimes.
He'd make plans with her, then break them last minute all the time...Often he wouldn't invite her out when we would all go play volleyball or hang at the pool.
There where even a few occasions that I can recall where we'd all be lazing around in the evening and he'd disappear (for rarely more than an hour) to go take care of business with her.....then come back and hang with us. (Yea...that was always kinda weird).

Point is, I don't think he had any care or respect for her at all...she was just a pussy to him and literally nothing more, and no doubt she hated it.
(of course she stuck with him for quite a while because girls like her are generally just dip shits like that)

Have you ever had a friend (or someone that hangs around you) agree with everything you say? And validate everything you do?
I have (and still do) have a couple friends like that....and it annoys the shit out of me sometimes.
I usually can't spend more than a day with those people.

The way I see it, a purely nice-guy in a relationship is the practically the same thing....nice in short bursts to boost your ego/self-esteem, but in the long haul, probably pretty fuckin annoying.

So its definitely good to find a happy medium...don't give in to her every request....but give in every once in a while and do something nice.
Push-Pull...give and take....thats what relationships (long-term or short-term) are all about anyway right?

[Guest]

P.S.

You are a douche-bag, PC.
Not an asshole.
There's a difference.

[Guest]

My two cents.

DON'T be an asshole, and don't be a supplicating dousche. (however you spell that shit)

Here's the key. Look at everything with POSITIVITY and be an encouraging and cool guy, but whatever you do, don't validate yourself to a woman. Don't TRY to make a girl like you with your actions or subcommunications. It's really that simple.

Be able to distinguish between "asshole" and "try-hard" at a very deep level.

Being an asshole is really the "Amateurs guide to Game" in my book. Not supplicating in terms of game is more important than being nice.

A guy who can be nice and still nail girls left and right has serious game.

Interesting post...

[Guest]

People poorly define assholes. In my mind, an asshole is someone that destroys your value. They tear you down to make themselves feel better, my father is an asshole. We played this game smaller my entire life, no matter how much he fucked up I was always just a little more of a fuck up, no matter how well I did at something he always did just a little better. You see, value destroyer.

PC I don't think of you as a value destroyer. Yes, I can see where you get the dick or asshole or douche or cocky moniker. The reason comes down to people and their insecurities.

The fact is that, for the most part, people tend to expect others to 'fall in line.' Women are especially guilty of this. They expect for a man to constantly be making overtures to fuck her. To shower her with affection to 'win' her over. The mere fact that women don't like this sort of behavior is 100% supported by the fact that women tend to be attracted to 'assholes.'

Her thinking: This guy doesn't treat me like a princess, he's different from every other guy I've ever been exposed to (for the most part anyway). I find his strength to be intriguing. I want to know more, so I'm going to stick around.

Notice the word 'strength.' This is where people wrongly classify you as an 'asshole.' They see that you aren't going to 'fall in line,' they see that you're going to do your own thing therefore you get labeled an asshole or dick or cocky because they're not accustom to this type of behavior.

Note that this dynamic is fluid and is based on the situation. So if you're a compliance monkey at the office people are going to think you're a team player, a nice guy, etc. But, if you're a strong, confident guy while you're at a bar then people are going to think of you as cocky or an ass.

When you're doing your own thing, walking your own path that is in any way different from the norm, society is going to try to get you back in line. One of the ways of doing this is to create social pressure from your peers, i.e. name calling, shunning, etc., to get you to comply. This explains why shit tests even exist. Women are simply trying to get you to become the nice guy they expect you to be....they're testing your strength not how much of an asshole you are.

As long as you aren't being malicious and are being careful with other people's feelings then I would never say you're an asshole.

I get the asshole label all the time. But it comes from people that don't understand what it's like to walk your own path. I do my own thing, I say what I want, and I don't apologize for what I say or do (but do apologize if I hurt someone's feelings). These things don't make me an asshole, they make me a strong, independent man.

Grimm -- I totally agree. The secret to running game is to not be running game. You shouldn't have to do and say things to get someone to like you. You should simply be...

Sleek -- You're blurb was by far the best thing you've ever posted on here...I mean by far. After reading that, I feel like you're really starting to see things a little differently. It seems, to me, that you're starting to understand that being good at PU is about figuring out who you really are. The mere fact that you're considering how much asshole sauce to mix into your food tells me that you probably have some 'asshole' qualities that you've hidden from the world out of fear of being labeled as an asshole.

There is no virtue in complying with the world when they are wrong.

[Guest]

Of course there is a middle groung. PC, I know you very well and I can say with 100% honesty that you are a nice guy. On the other hand, I can say with 100% honesty that you are a total asshole. I don't think it's as much of an act as it is an over-exageration of your natural personality.

We know that women like assholes. That's why we're here. Next question. When you actually find someone that you want to spend quality time with, you can and will change your asshole persona. Trust me. Not to say you will become the nice guy who gets his heart stomped on, but you can be much nicer while still retaining your a-hole sensibilities.

I had a conversation just last night with the ol' ball and chain. She mentioned how huge of an a-hole I used to be. I said "what are you talking about? I'm still an a-hole!", she said "nothing like you used to be". And she's completely right. But that's what it's about, a smidgeon of compromise will get you a ton in return. A good gesture from an a-hole means so much more than from an already nice guy.

So when you find her, she will cool your jets a little. That's what every woman wanys anyway, to be the reason an a-hole changes his a-hole antics.

[Guest]

[quote1222285199=Lion]
a smidgeon of compromise will get you a ton in return. A good gesture from an a-hole means so much more than from an already nice guy.

So when you find her, she will cool your jets a little. That's what every woman wanys anyway, to be the reason an a-hole changes his a-hole antics.
[/quote1222285199]

I'm quoting this because I agree with it 110% and I think people would do well to take this pearl to heart.

Bull Run,

As usual you have a way of wording what I'm trying to say much better than I do. You're right, it depends how you define "asshole." IMO there are a couple "asshole-esque" qualities that are attractive to women (meaning I think that's what people on here are referring to as "asshole," where you and I do not use that word for this behavior), off the top of my head here are some of them...

1.) You know what you want and what you stand for and you don't put up with bullshit from people
2.) You stand up for what you deserve (including respect, sex, etc) and you value your time and gestures
3.) You don't try hard to impress people or make people like you, because you are secure in yourself and besides, most of your time is spent focusing on things outside of your own head.


Someone who's an asshole may very well have those qualities (or not) but it's also pretty easy to hone those qualities while still being a positive human being who builds people up and adds value to the world around him.

[Guest]

I don't see the best choice as middle ground or in-between nice guy and asshole. I think it's a third option entirely.

Nice guy vs. asshole places all the focus on [i]them[/i]. Whether you're treating [i]them[/i] well or treating [i]them[/i] poorly. Wrong focus. It should be about you. Focus on treating yourself well. Sometimes that means you disregard what she wants, and sometimes it means you're nice to her. Standing up for yourself does not mean that you have to be negative toward her or anyone else.

I agree with BR, how it's about strength and doing your own thing, which is sometimes mistaken for "asshole" but is really not. I think there is also a flip side, which is that if you're doing your own thing and you treat people well, you can get mistaken for "nice guy".

I try to be strong and independent and to treat people as well as I can get away with without being mistaken for the nice guy.

I think there is a huge difference between treating someone well because you want them to like you, versus treating someone well because that's who you are and that's what you do.

The biggest problem is early in an interaction, a woman won't have much to go on. It can be hard for her to tell the difference between supplicating and just being good to people, but she is forced to make a decision. These are the times when you might have to "mix the sauce" just right, in order to not be mischaracterized. But aside from that, as long as you don't give up your strength or independence, you can be as nice as you want.