[quote1228361777=JJE]
alpha vs. non-alpha chicks - never read much about that... why would you necessarily want an alpha chick compared to a beta?
[/quote1228361777]
The same reason a woman wants an Alpha Male. Nobody wants second best.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Categorizing Women: a rambling session...
32 posts
• Page 3 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
by Guest » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:49 pm
but alpha doesn't necessarily mean prettiest or best fuck... i mean for a LTR I could see why you would want an alpha... but if you're just looking for something more casual why would it make a difference? I don't think because a guy is not alpha it doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile or decent person (just not exhibiting alpha traits) so I assume it would be the same for females.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:59 am
[quote1228397295=Skepsis]
1) Within what amount do you guys mostly find yourselves categorizing a women? 5 seconds? 10 minutes? Third date?
2) What exactly are you using for this categorization? Non-verbal communication? Verbal? Both? And what do you look for in each part of communication that puts her in the category?
3) If a girl seems to respond to only a certain type of gaming (i.e. Direct or Indirect) do you give her what she wants? If she wants direct, do you give her a little then sort of take it away?
4) What are the most important things to calibrate when you have categorized a girl? and how do you calibrate?
[/quote1228397295]
1. For me it all depends on the woman and how well her and I click from the start. It's all about that "vibe"! If she hasn't made it into the sexual category by the 4th date, then you are doing something wrong or she's a waste of time. I am the type that likes to have a lots of research gathered before I make that determination. So on average for me I know by the second date. Those girls that I place in the "sexual" category within a few hours of meeting them never keep my interest. I guess I like a challenge too.
2. Yes verbal and non-verbal. I also look at how frequently she attempts communication and how often she initiates it. When you start getting text messages that say good morning, or good night........you've got it sexual. You are obviously on her mind. You don't want lopsided communication where you are putting all the effort into it. Most likely that means shes not that interested. Sometimes I'll just stop communicating with her and see if she starts it up again. I love playing that trick. If she takes the bait, then she will most likely be sexual. This can be applied at a bar as well. Approach, eject, comeback to her. If she's interested she'll let you know. Don't expect her to broadcast it with a megaphone tho! ;-) lol. Afterall she'd be labeled "easy" if she did.
3. Always calibrate to what it takes to attract her. Game is a lot like a resume you would send when looking for a job. A smart guy will calibrate his resume to the type of job he is seeking. For example, lets pretend you were an engineer looking for a job. You don't send the same resume to an automotive manufacturing company as you would a company who makes potato chips. Chics are like potential employers.......they have what you want........its about pussy & $$$! Its your task to get in their head and figure out what they want and how they click.
4. Smirks said it well when he mentioned "accepting your presence". Its also important to make your self approachable, give her a chance to let you know shes interested. If you don't, you make it difficult for her to display her body language in a manner that allows you to calibrate the interaction. My exwife taught me that body language/actions are the best indicators of someones intentions. Whats coming out of their mouth could be total bs, but you'll discover their true intentions when you read body language.
I was on a first date a few weeks ago playing pool with a girl and I wanted to get a read(calibrate) on where I stood with her. Did SHE consider me sexual or not at that point? So I sat on the edge of the barstool and struck my "cool James Dean- I'm a hot sexy confident guy" pose while I held her drink up and motioned for her to come over. I gave her the "I want to fuck you at some point" look. She walked right up to me and and wrapped her arms, and makes some comment about my eyes while staring into them. Just as I had hoped!!! I knew at this point she considered me sexual. I used this calibration tool to figure out if she was really into me and as a result got a strong indicator from her body language. She basically told me without saying it, that I find you sexual.
Great Topic Solace.
1) Within what amount do you guys mostly find yourselves categorizing a women? 5 seconds? 10 minutes? Third date?
2) What exactly are you using for this categorization? Non-verbal communication? Verbal? Both? And what do you look for in each part of communication that puts her in the category?
3) If a girl seems to respond to only a certain type of gaming (i.e. Direct or Indirect) do you give her what she wants? If she wants direct, do you give her a little then sort of take it away?
4) What are the most important things to calibrate when you have categorized a girl? and how do you calibrate?
[/quote1228397295]
1. For me it all depends on the woman and how well her and I click from the start. It's all about that "vibe"! If she hasn't made it into the sexual category by the 4th date, then you are doing something wrong or she's a waste of time. I am the type that likes to have a lots of research gathered before I make that determination. So on average for me I know by the second date. Those girls that I place in the "sexual" category within a few hours of meeting them never keep my interest. I guess I like a challenge too.
2. Yes verbal and non-verbal. I also look at how frequently she attempts communication and how often she initiates it. When you start getting text messages that say good morning, or good night........you've got it sexual. You are obviously on her mind. You don't want lopsided communication where you are putting all the effort into it. Most likely that means shes not that interested. Sometimes I'll just stop communicating with her and see if she starts it up again. I love playing that trick. If she takes the bait, then she will most likely be sexual. This can be applied at a bar as well. Approach, eject, comeback to her. If she's interested she'll let you know. Don't expect her to broadcast it with a megaphone tho! ;-) lol. Afterall she'd be labeled "easy" if she did.
3. Always calibrate to what it takes to attract her. Game is a lot like a resume you would send when looking for a job. A smart guy will calibrate his resume to the type of job he is seeking. For example, lets pretend you were an engineer looking for a job. You don't send the same resume to an automotive manufacturing company as you would a company who makes potato chips. Chics are like potential employers.......they have what you want........its about pussy & $$$! Its your task to get in their head and figure out what they want and how they click.
4. Smirks said it well when he mentioned "accepting your presence". Its also important to make your self approachable, give her a chance to let you know shes interested. If you don't, you make it difficult for her to display her body language in a manner that allows you to calibrate the interaction. My exwife taught me that body language/actions are the best indicators of someones intentions. Whats coming out of their mouth could be total bs, but you'll discover their true intentions when you read body language.
I was on a first date a few weeks ago playing pool with a girl and I wanted to get a read(calibrate) on where I stood with her. Did SHE consider me sexual or not at that point? So I sat on the edge of the barstool and struck my "cool James Dean- I'm a hot sexy confident guy" pose while I held her drink up and motioned for her to come over. I gave her the "I want to fuck you at some point" look. She walked right up to me and and wrapped her arms, and makes some comment about my eyes while staring into them. Just as I had hoped!!! I knew at this point she considered me sexual. I used this calibration tool to figure out if she was really into me and as a result got a strong indicator from her body language. She basically told me without saying it, that I find you sexual.
Great Topic Solace.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 pm
Hmm. I never quite thought about using body language tests like that Howie! At least I've never been conscious of it. But that's golden! I actually day 2 time bridged with a chick from class yesterday, for friday. I've been wondering about the sexual escalation I should use, and that will actually work perfectly, instead of verbalizing and possibly losing face, I can test the waters with that. Hmmm.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:18 pm
I have been working on this response for a while now and, as usual, I find it is very hard (not to mention time consuming) to explain my years of experiences with good succinct prose. It really doesn't help either when my laptop crashes and I lose everything. My theories are also a shit ton easier to show someone in field (over time that is)..
I'll attack 2-4 later.
[b][i]1) Within what amount do you guys mostly find yourselves categorizing a women? 5 seconds? 10 minutes? Third date? [/i][/b]
I am not 100% sure what we are defining by "categorizing a woman" (even though thats the topic of the thread!). The fact that your possible list of timeframe answers has 5 seconds or 10 seconds leads me to think maybe we are confusing some important approach based ideas here so lets explore the initial interaction..
For arguement's sake we will assume a cold approach. I sometimes write about making BL or other observations and determinations before entering set if possible (or at the very first initial interaction if thats how it does down). The point of this is to powerfully convey social intuition right up front (plus not make faux pas like most guys and hit on some guy's GF or a girl who is obviously not DTF or be a douche in any way, shape or form).
You are just building initial comfort with the group, typically the coolest guy or Alpha girl (side note - the only place I have found this Alpha/Beta girl distinction truly useful was that Alpha girl is also usually protector of weaker girls and therefore more inclined and able to accept you into all girl groups. Plus you can spot them pretty easily (hair band LOL)) - and also Alpha girl is more prevalent with younger <23yo girls (not my preference). *side note - its also not ususual for them to tell you to fuck off. Don't let that hurt your feelings!!!!*. I would categorize these skills as being part of micro-calibration - one of the most essential in advanced pickup (credit Adam London).
At the point where you have gained comfort with the group, attracted girls would typically play their cards and begin to chase you (if there are any in that set). It is not at all unusual for girls to grab you arm (or face) while they try to get you to listen to them for example. I have seen some pretty extreme stuff and I WELCOME that. Or maybe it is more verbal based flirting. Or something else (like sometimes with super hot girls they want to bust on you, like "who the fuck is this guy?" lucky for you girls are weak as hell so you are well on the way when she is doing this).. Either way she now can be "categorized" I suppose as at least somewhat attracted, which is the only really useful category out there
What I am trying to get at here is that everything in the interaction should be constantly micro-calibrated. It matters not one bit to me whether she is the Alpha girl or bad girl or good girl or whatever other label (other than in the sense of social intuition and shit test responses, etc..). Only thing that matters is
a) I would fuck her and b) she is DTF that night or there are extenuating circumstances (my personal requirements - not some bullshit they make up).
For most guys that get this far there is a c) option which is DTF at some unspecified time in the future. Good luck with that because now you are playing on their turf and thats not my domain. I have put in my time there during my learning curve. I just screen that girl out nowadays. You can also do a multitude of other things with "that girl", including use her to enhance social circle or pump her BT later on when you see here again many different ways (other girls attracted to you, etc..). Or you could #close her (usually she would anyway if you threaten to leave) and even just mess with her on text to concrete your understanding of women. Most will break down on text and be explicitly DTF, as per examples with UncleHowie et al.
But why bother?? You are basically back to square one the next time you meet and its still on her to make it available IMO. I'm not discounting day2 (BradP says you should do them at first and he is right). But at this point, for me, thats not my deal any more. Don't read anything into this.
I'll attack 2-4 later.
[b][i]1) Within what amount do you guys mostly find yourselves categorizing a women? 5 seconds? 10 minutes? Third date? [/i][/b]
I am not 100% sure what we are defining by "categorizing a woman" (even though thats the topic of the thread!). The fact that your possible list of timeframe answers has 5 seconds or 10 seconds leads me to think maybe we are confusing some important approach based ideas here so lets explore the initial interaction..
For arguement's sake we will assume a cold approach. I sometimes write about making BL or other observations and determinations before entering set if possible (or at the very first initial interaction if thats how it does down). The point of this is to powerfully convey social intuition right up front (plus not make faux pas like most guys and hit on some guy's GF or a girl who is obviously not DTF or be a douche in any way, shape or form).
You are just building initial comfort with the group, typically the coolest guy or Alpha girl (side note - the only place I have found this Alpha/Beta girl distinction truly useful was that Alpha girl is also usually protector of weaker girls and therefore more inclined and able to accept you into all girl groups. Plus you can spot them pretty easily (hair band LOL)) - and also Alpha girl is more prevalent with younger <23yo girls (not my preference). *side note - its also not ususual for them to tell you to fuck off. Don't let that hurt your feelings!!!!*. I would categorize these skills as being part of micro-calibration - one of the most essential in advanced pickup (credit Adam London).
At the point where you have gained comfort with the group, attracted girls would typically play their cards and begin to chase you (if there are any in that set). It is not at all unusual for girls to grab you arm (or face) while they try to get you to listen to them for example. I have seen some pretty extreme stuff and I WELCOME that. Or maybe it is more verbal based flirting. Or something else (like sometimes with super hot girls they want to bust on you, like "who the fuck is this guy?" lucky for you girls are weak as hell so you are well on the way when she is doing this).. Either way she now can be "categorized" I suppose as at least somewhat attracted, which is the only really useful category out there
What I am trying to get at here is that everything in the interaction should be constantly micro-calibrated. It matters not one bit to me whether she is the Alpha girl or bad girl or good girl or whatever other label (other than in the sense of social intuition and shit test responses, etc..). Only thing that matters is
a) I would fuck her and b) she is DTF that night or there are extenuating circumstances (my personal requirements - not some bullshit they make up).
For most guys that get this far there is a c) option which is DTF at some unspecified time in the future. Good luck with that because now you are playing on their turf and thats not my domain. I have put in my time there during my learning curve. I just screen that girl out nowadays. You can also do a multitude of other things with "that girl", including use her to enhance social circle or pump her BT later on when you see here again many different ways (other girls attracted to you, etc..). Or you could #close her (usually she would anyway if you threaten to leave) and even just mess with her on text to concrete your understanding of women. Most will break down on text and be explicitly DTF, as per examples with UncleHowie et al.
But why bother?? You are basically back to square one the next time you meet and its still on her to make it available IMO. I'm not discounting day2 (BradP says you should do them at first and he is right). But at this point, for me, thats not my deal any more. Don't read anything into this.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:07 pm
[quote1228431921=Solace]
Welsh will actually stand around talking with you in a venue, but what he's really doing is watching everygirl interact. He can see right off the bat which is the best pick.
[/quote1228431921]
Or, to put it another way, exactly what hot women are doing. You can bet your ass they notice when some significant social event appears on their radar (or gaydar as the case may be for Solace j/k ;) Seriously though I really did learn this from watching hotties. They literally see everything. Test it.
Tyler refers to reticular activating systems (RAS) throught his Blueprint DVDs, and they are a topic of active research. The basic premise is to "turn off" your RAS so as to appear to be of very high value (think Henry VIII). Making other people''s RAS "go off" indicates that they are of lower value and therefore you are of higher value. So how you react to people, and how people react to you, is the signal girls are looking for. It sounds like an intinite loop but, just like the street in Cupertino, it isn't really (or is it?). And as more and more women "react" to you, more others take note..
Most of what I have learned (useful stuff) has ultimately come from reading/research (genetics, philosiphy, psychology, etc..). This is a reason I like Tyler because he bases his theories on sound scientific backing and they goes out to prove/disprove them. This has been my model at least for 1.5 years now.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticular_activating_system[/url]
Welsh will actually stand around talking with you in a venue, but what he's really doing is watching everygirl interact. He can see right off the bat which is the best pick.
[/quote1228431921]
Or, to put it another way, exactly what hot women are doing. You can bet your ass they notice when some significant social event appears on their radar (or gaydar as the case may be for Solace j/k ;) Seriously though I really did learn this from watching hotties. They literally see everything. Test it.
Tyler refers to reticular activating systems (RAS) throught his Blueprint DVDs, and they are a topic of active research. The basic premise is to "turn off" your RAS so as to appear to be of very high value (think Henry VIII). Making other people''s RAS "go off" indicates that they are of lower value and therefore you are of higher value. So how you react to people, and how people react to you, is the signal girls are looking for. It sounds like an intinite loop but, just like the street in Cupertino, it isn't really (or is it?). And as more and more women "react" to you, more others take note..
Most of what I have learned (useful stuff) has ultimately come from reading/research (genetics, philosiphy, psychology, etc..). This is a reason I like Tyler because he bases his theories on sound scientific backing and they goes out to prove/disprove them. This has been my model at least for 1.5 years now.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticular_activating_system[/url]
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:27 pm
[quote1228440255=JJE]
but alpha doesn't necessarily mean prettiest or best fuck... i mean for a LTR I could see why you would want an alpha... but if you're just looking for something more casual why would it make a difference? I don't think because a guy is not alpha it doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile or decent person (just not exhibiting alpha traits) so I assume it would be the same for females.
[/quote1228440255]
If you just want to fuck it doesn't matter what she is. For an LTR you'd want a chick with more going on. And you're right about the whole guy alpha thing. Some of the coolest and funniest guys I know are not alpha. They rock to hang out with, especially because I get all the pussy.
but alpha doesn't necessarily mean prettiest or best fuck... i mean for a LTR I could see why you would want an alpha... but if you're just looking for something more casual why would it make a difference? I don't think because a guy is not alpha it doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile or decent person (just not exhibiting alpha traits) so I assume it would be the same for females.
[/quote1228440255]
If you just want to fuck it doesn't matter what she is. For an LTR you'd want a chick with more going on. And you're right about the whole guy alpha thing. Some of the coolest and funniest guys I know are not alpha. They rock to hang out with, especially because I get all the pussy.
- Guest
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