Luke Krogh top 7th PUA works with AFC adam

[Guest]

Bull Run, I love you man. You have one for everything any one here would say.

Since you never went to a boot camp then you're probably not the best critic to speak about the benefits. I applaud you for helping yourself, as my view is that more are unsuccessful than are. I do also applaud the guys that step up and take a bootcamp too.

You make some good points.. but, you will find plenty of proponents of boot camps that don't hangout with instructors, that aren't coaching, that are just happy with the results.

I found that the lair doesn't help everyone. There's not much of a motivation to do so. The people that did help had a goal and ego in mind. There's also a natural group dynamics. Granted, I popped on to the scene during a time when members of this board were fragmenting from the other. Maybe that's why?

For me the 1,500 dollar check had more value than begging, waiting, and had FOCUSED instruction.

[Guest]

There's no doubt that boot camps are beneficial, especially to newbies. Though each bootcamp is taught from a different school of thought, they cover many of the basic principles that is required to be sucessful.

Some need the direct supervision and instruction of a coach to be better. Everyone learns differently.

I am one that never took a bootcamp and learned mostly from this lair and very few and select reading material. I would wager that I can prob game just as well, if not better than some guys who have taken bootcamps (and I haven't even cloesly reached my full potential yet).

Ultimately, what it comes down to is how motivated you are in becoming good. Which ususally leads to hours of in field sarging. You learn from your sets, succesful or not. I'd say that you learn more from failed sets than successful sets.

Bootcamps are not for everyone. But at the same time, can be extremely beneficial to some. It's all about finding what will make you better and doing it.
Wether it's reading from online forums, books or personal coaching.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=bigdprince;37052]Bull Run, I love you man.[/QUOTE]

First off, you don't know me so you cannot love me. So drop that reframing shit right now. (Not to go on a rant, but you do that a lot with your language. I read your posts and can't help but think you're trying to game a forum of DUDES)

[QUOTE=bigdprince;37052]Since you never went to a boot camp then you're probably not the best critic to speak about the benefits. I applaud you for helping yourself, as my view is that more are unsuccessful than are. I do also applaud the guys that step up and take a bootcamp too.

You make some good points.. but, you will find plenty of proponents of boot camps that don't hangout with instructors, that aren't coaching, that are just happy with the results.

I found that the lair doesn't help everyone. There's not much of a motivation to do so. The people that did help had a goal and ego in mind. There's also a natural group dynamics. Granted, I popped on to the scene during a time when members of this board were fragmenting from the other. Maybe that's why?

For me the 1,500 dollar check had more value than begging, waiting, and had FOCUSED instruction.[/QUOTE]


I wasn't speaking to the benefits of bootcamps, I was saying that they are not required. At some point in the past, before the proliferation of the Game and the emergence of an untold number of charlatan guru's, bootcamps were required because there wasn't the breadthe of information available like there is today. I mean everyone has a fucking blog, Christ. You can read everything you need to know about Game in about a week, maybe two if you're borderline retarded.

Seems to me that a bootcamp is essentially paid peer pressure. Sure there's some feedback from your approaches but unless they were in set with you it's probably not the best in the world (I remember getting advice a few times from instructors that were out regarding a set I was working and they were dead fucking wrong...this happened several times with different guys, even went so far as them telling me to eject because I was going to get blown out...I walked out of the place with my target in just about every case). You pay people to kick you in the ass and talk to girls. Fine. This is why some people have trainers at the gym.

But, in my opinion, that's the pussy's way out. If someone really wants something they're going to figure out a way to get it. Period. End of story.

For example, me. My game sucks balls right now. I couldn't close a fucking door. But, I'm OK with that because I don't give two shits about women right now at this specific moment in my life. Doesn't mean I can't do it, doesn't mean that I don't have a huge amount of knowledge, it just means that I don't WANT to do it. So guess what? I don't. There's more to life than pussy and I'm enjoying all of the rest of it. For now....

Pick-up is not about tactics or techniques or gambits or any of that shit. Sure, that stuff is important but really only provide you with marginal benefit if you have them nailed down well. You go from good to great if you can pull all of the small stuff together. Instead, pick-up is about HUNGER. I'll bet on a guy that's crazy hungry to get some pussy and to get good and to build his value as a man (and has some minimal level of value to begin with) before I'll bet on the 'expert instructor.' Knowledge doesn't mean shit if you don't have the emotional capital necessary to invest in using it.

Under that context, bootcamps don't provide very much at all. I see it all the time at the gym man. I'm in the fucking gym week in and week out. You see the same people. You also see people come and go. It's normal. But, what you ALWAYS see is that the person that hired a trainer and then stopped training with them and then they stopped coming to the gym. Once they are no longer held accountable they quit, because they really don't WANT to be fit. I'll bet you any amount of money that the success rate of bootcamps (i.e. guys that continue sarging and approaching after the bootcamp) is about as high as guys that just walk into a lair and start trying. A bootcamp cannot make you hungry.

You and you alone are going to determine your success. A bootcamp isn't going to do anyting of the sort because you've already made up your mind to succeed, or not, well before you attend the bootcamp.

And, that's the dirty little secret in the Community. Guys that ask why they can't get good aren't getting good purely because that's not what they really want. Sure, they may think it's what they want, but it's really not. So, these guys seek out books and instructors and bootcamps to help them improve when, in fact, they simply don't want it enough to actually do the work necessary to get good. Truth be told, the only work you really have to do in game is improve yourself as a person, have a forum to inspire and share information, and fucking talk to girls. That's about it. But, people don't want to change. They want a magic pill. Fine. The bootcamp is a magic pill. Take them and waste your money and pay someone else to do what you should be doing everyday for free: holding yourself accountable to do the work necessary to get the benefits you want.

Charlatans. All of them. That prey on the shortcomings of others for profit and 'fame.'

[Guest]

There is no magic pill... and all boot camps are not created equal. And even then all instructors are not equal. I happened to find some that are really bad ass. Thank god they didn't have me running around negging women and asking who lies more guys or girls.

There wasn't any type of magic pill routine or system that I got. I mean I did get some great things that I haven't seen any where else in the community that work 100% for me EVERY time.

Mostly I saw an example of class that really worked. It was a foundation where people have to make a paradigm shift in life and communication. Break down some inner game issues and focus on the natural building blocks that will always be there.

I like your gym analogy. However, I would liken pick up to an athlete rather than a weight lifter. Athletes attend training camps (i.e. quarterback camp ) and learn different skill sets and fine tune their skills.

I waited to take a bootcamp because of the negative diatribes I read. It was also lot of money. For me a boot camp helped me get it. Many people would pay over 1K to take work shop with a motivational speaker, why be cheap? Pony up.. do your research and make a commitment to change. Just don't be looking for a magic pill.

Either path is hard work. You don't always have to be focused on women. I'm more than sure when the desire strikes you can step up and take your cuts.

The truth is.. I've met some GREAT people and they are not full of shit or fake charlatans. Yes, they get paid for coaching pickup.. but, the ones I know really do care and do take it very seriously. Otherwise I wouldn't hesitate to call them out.

[Guest]

who cares! ;)

I wonder how impressed a girl would be when she found out you paid $1000 to learn girl chasing skills! ;)

This whole pua thing kind of whips my ass any more. Its a foundation to build skills and move on. Thats it. Its not about canned routines, stacks, openers, and day 2's and all the other stupid lingo that gets tossed around. You really don't even need to learn that shit. Its like all the pua guru's try and make this some "psycho-science". Its not necessary to be so analytical.......after all we are dealing with women! You can't analyze a fucking woman and be right more often than not.

Anymore I just act bad ass self, and if they like me they let me know. If not I don't give a shit. Most of the girls I've been with came on to me first.......they choose anyways. Some of you will learn that someday.

[Guest]

@ bull run , im not meaning to sound rude dude but you seem over confident in your abilities. plus ive heard this from several people who knew you and have run sets with you. but i also hear you deserve your confidence.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=maenad;37062]@ bull run , im not meaning to sound rude dude but you seem over confident in your abilities. plus ive heard this from several people who knew you and have run sets with you. but i also hear you deserve your confidence.[/QUOTE]



Man, you're right. The truth is that I'm just a KJ. I'm really 50 years old, live in my mom's basement, am unemployed, have poor hygiene skills, and play WOW all day (save for the times in which I'm on here).

Thank you for the wake up call. Reality checks are always important.

[Guest]

wasnt tryin to be rude, it was more of what i heard but people talk shit all the time so you shouldnt give a fuck.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=UncleHOwie;37060]who cares! ;)

Anymore I just act bad ass self, and if they like me they let me know. If not I don't give a shit. Most of the girls I've been with came on to me first.......they choose anyways. Some of you will learn that someday.[/QUOTE]

LOL @ this thread and thank you Unclehowie for this one nugget of sense herein. One day...

[Guest]

Here's the thing. Neil Strauss said in his now famous book; That he took what worked for him, and he threw out the rest. This is what the bootcamp vs non-bootcamp crowd needs to listen to. For some, they get a benefit, for others, not so much, and some could take it or leave it.

The most important message in this thread was delivered by Bull Run. That message is, "It doesn't matter what knowledge or social skills you have. What matters is your desire to learn, grow, and continually improve. What matters is your hunger."

Going to a lair meet up helped me enormously. By going to one of these I pushed myself outside my comfort zone. I knew what I was going there to do, and I did it. The other guys in the lair observed and gave me advice. I really appreciated that, and they weren't doing it to get something out of it. They gave of themselves to help someone out. The universe rewards giving like that.

Finally, in the end analysis, the one golden nugget that I have learned from my time doing this PUA stuff is this. "If you don't try, you fail by default."