A question for the pua's who got through it

[Guest]

Time to repeat some wise words that stuck with me from one of the guys here a long time ago:
This is YOUR life.

YOU pick who YOU are and what YOU do.
Forget what anyone else thinks. Seriously, fuck em.....doesn't matter.

[Guest]

Bullrun is good at swift kicks in the ass :)

I only disagree with one thing he said and that's that being around other PUAs won't help you. I wouldn't say you need someone to teach you per se or be your wing all the time... but being exposed to seeing it in the field has been valuable to me. It is one thing to read about something online or watch a video... another thing to see it up close. And I think it is comparable to another language... yea you can just immerse yourself in the language until you gradually pick it up.... but being around someone else who speaks the language fluently and also speaks yours you will pick up things you wouldn't without a lot more practice :) Our brains our wired to mimic / mirror the things we see. Seeing it right in front of you does help you pick it up faster than just trying to figure it all out through simple trial and error.

[Guest]

Gunner,

forum shows you've joined Dec 24th 2007.

Have you met anyone from the community in the past year?

Life moves by quick. Where do you want to be in another YEAR.

I think it's rather ironic first meetup is Jan 2nd 2009. Great opportunity to start the year off right with that first step.

[Guest]

[quote1230654935=JJE]
Bullrun is good at swift kicks in the ass :)

I only disagree with one thing he said and that's that being around other PUAs won't help you. I wouldn't say you need someone to teach you per se or be your wing all the time... but being exposed to seeing it in the field has been valuable to me. It is one thing to read about something online or watch a video... another thing to see it up close. And I think it is comparable to another language... yea you can just immerse yourself in the language until you gradually pick it up.... but being around someone else who speaks the language fluently and also speaks yours you will pick up things you wouldn't without a lot more practice :) Our brains our wired to mimic / mirror the things we see. Seeing it right in front of you does help you pick it up faster than just trying to figure it all out through simple trial and error.
[/quote1230654935]


Yeah. I can understand that line of thinking.

But, why be a second rate copy of someone else when you can be a first rate version of you?

I think you know what I'm getting at...

[Guest]

[quote1230655082=Bull Run]
[quote1230654935=JJE]
Bullrun is good at swift kicks in the ass :)

I only disagree with one thing he said and that's that being around other PUAs won't help you. I wouldn't say you need someone to teach you per se or be your wing all the time... but being exposed to seeing it in the field has been valuable to me. It is one thing to read about something online or watch a video... another thing to see it up close. And I think it is comparable to another language... yea you can just immerse yourself in the language until you gradually pick it up.... but being around someone else who speaks the language fluently and also speaks yours you will pick up things you wouldn't without a lot more practice :) Our brains our wired to mimic / mirror the things we see. Seeing it right in front of you does help you pick it up faster than just trying to figure it all out through simple trial and error.
[/quote1230654935]


Yeah. I can understand that line of thinking.

But, why be a second rate copy of someone else when you can be a first rate version of you?

I think you know what I'm getting at...

[/quote1230655082]

BR, IMO the point isn't to be a second rate copy of someone else, it's to observe how this pickup thing really works in real life. Reading about it will only get you so far because a complete beginner perceives everything completely wrong. Getting to see it in action helps a lot (although doing it for yourself helps even more).

Also it's beneficial surround yourself with people with the same goals and aspirations as yourself so you all motivate each other to improve. You're not trying to copy people (although you may steal things here or there when it works), you're trying to create a group of people all motivated towards the same goal of improvement with women, i.e. Napolean Hill's Mastermind group. So the real benefit of having a group of wings isn't really through actual sarging, but instead through the improvement process.

I'll add that, having said that, it seems to be hard to get together a good mastermind group.

[Guest]

Yea I wasn't saying you should get with someone good and copy them... just that there are things you will pick up on in a set with someone who is good that you won't pick up from watching a video or reading something online. You might figure these things out eventually after lots of practice or just seeing other people out, but you'll pick them up faster experiencing it. Not someone elses overall style, but little things you notice that you may not have picked up on til much later. That doesn't mean you need to go out and sarge with other people all the time, just that it's good to go out with someone better with you on occasion and get in sets with them. The other person who's better can also provide a lot of helpful feedback on stuff you're doing that you aren't seeing that'll speed things up too. You can't expect to do that all the time though and I agree most of the time sarging it's just going to be up to you to get out there, do it and work on getting better yourself - but sarging with guys who are pretty good will definitely help you pick up stuff a bit quicker.

[Guest]

Community as a whole best serves as a bugle call and a catalyst, not crutches. Sure it opens your eyes in the beginning but down the road, no one else can power you through but your very self.

[Guest]

[quote1230659139=Acuity]BR, IMO the point isn't to be a second rate copy of someone else, it's to observe how this pickup thing really works in real life. Reading about it will only get you so far because a complete beginner perceives everything completely wrong. Getting to see it in action helps a lot (although doing it for yourself helps even more).[/quote1230659139]


This is what you don't understand. You can read, watch, study, whatever. But you hold the answers. Watching how this pickup thing works in real life will get you exactly no where.

You're really not getting it. You get good by being yourself. You can watch or you can DO.

I prefer the latter. I can watch you fuck someone else, or I can fuck that person. Which is better?

[Guest]

BR, I think you've been good long enough that you don't really know what's going on in the head of a complete newbie, man. It's not just that they're bad with chicks and that they need to get out there and get some experience (although there is that). It's that they have NO CLUE how it works! At all!

I'm assuming you're not, say, a photographer. If I were to tell you or anyone else that has no clue how to use a camera "hey, go out and take some portrait shots of this model", your pictures would suck. Obviously! It's natural to suck if you don't even know the FUNDAMENTALS like what is aperture, shutter speed, iso, dof, how to light correctly, composition, whatever.

From here I could say, "oh, just keep doing it until you get better. Read this book while you're at it." And you'll probably get better if you keep at it.

But in order to get REALLY good, you MUST take some photographic principles from others before you. You don't have to re-invent [b]every[/b] wheel. Break the principles if you want, but you have to KNOW them and OBSERVE them. Sure, everyone has the innate ability to take good pictures (after all, it's just point, flick a few dials, place a few lights, and shoot), but in order to find that ability you have to follow tried and true wisdom. From there you can develop your own photographic style that suits yourself.

Come on, man. Greater men than you and I have mentors. Surely you don't believe that one person can work through everything by himself?

[Guest]

[quote1230670600=Acuity]
BR, I think you've been good long enough that you don't really know what's going on in the head of a complete newbie, man. It's not just that they're bad with chicks and that they need to get out there and get some experience (although there is that). It's that they have NO CLUE how it works! At all!

I'm assuming you're not, say, a photographer. If I were to tell you or anyone else that has no clue how to use a camera "hey, go out and take some portrait shots of this model", your pictures would suck. Obviously! It's natural to suck if you don't even know the FUNDAMENTALS like what is aperture, shutter speed, iso, dof, how to light correctly, composition, whatever.

From here I could say, "oh, just keep doing it until you get better. Read this book while you're at it." And you'll probably get better if you keep at it.

But in order to get REALLY good, you MUST take some photographic principles from others before you. You don't have to re-invent [b]every[/b] wheel. Break the principles if you want, but you have to KNOW them and OBSERVE them. Sure, everyone has the innate ability to take good pictures (after all, it's just point, flick a few dials, place a few lights, and shoot), but in order to find that ability you have to follow tried and true wisdom. From there you can develop your own photographic style that suits yourself.

Come on, man. Greater men than you and I have mentors. Surely you don't believe that one person can work through everything by himself?
[/quote1230670600]


I'm not saying that you'll ever have all the answers man. What I'm saying is that you can continue to seek advice and guidance from other people that don't truly know you. Or, you can just go out and start taking photos. You learn all you need to learn to be successful and effective by gaining experience. Sure, sure you'll never be the BEST on your own. But, if you learn it on your own then you'll be the best you that you can be.

And, by the way, I'm not really all that good. I'm just confident in myself. I want to learn how the world works on my terms and through my filter. I don't want someone's mentorship. I learn and internalize things on my own. The best way to truly understand something is to figure it out on your own. (Side bar: I've had many business mentors and they learned just as much, if not more, from me than I did from them. A mentor learns just as they teach. In that context, there really is no such thing as a true mentor)

I think what you're concerned about is that newbies will go out on their own and fail. Guess what? They will. Further, I think you're worried that when they fail a lot of them will simply just walk away. Well, my friend, if you're weak enough to simply walk away in the face of failure then you don't belong here or anywhere else. It's harsh, but it's also survival of the fittest. Learn to be a survivor. That's my philosophy, that's how I learned, that's how I see the world.