My proposal

[Khaos]

Ok, basically the quality of speakers have not been great. To some degree, I see this as being detrimental to the newer members who might look up to these so called gurus who in reality are no better than some of the members on here. Also, not to mention at the end of the day all these want is that last penny or dime off you and would probably say anything to make money, which is also the reason why they come in the first place. So, I propose we be a little more democratic in our choices. I think we should vote/put polls up on who we want to come speak to us.

[Gigantor]

Just a suggestion...

Since I'm based out of the West Coast I've seen just about every major speaker and there are really good guys who don't spend the entire seminar pitching their products, then again there are the guys that's all they do.

I'd recommend reaching out to Gareth Jones from ABC's of Attraction and Bravo (bravopua.com) as two really cool dudes who HATE the marketing side of PUA. Gareth is always flying somewhere and Bravo is based out of AZ.

One of my friends in SF just went to go see Sasha Daygame last month...at the end of his "free" seminar he passed around a cup for donations. Eek. Yeah I get that it costs money to fly out to places and pay for hotels, but don't advertise that something is for free and then do shit like that.

Also one gal who's worth her weight in gold is Talullah Sulis. She's a sexologist based in the Bay Area and I did pay for her seminar, wasn't much if I remember and there was some shit I learned that every girl I've dated has really appreciated. She is kinda a hippy weirdo but once you get past that she teaches real and tangible stuff you can use instead of just theory.

[Triumvirate]

I don't think newbies should look up to Gurus just based on their claims. I think the speakers have all given good insight and a few good techniques. If after hearing them speak, some people want to drop some coin to take their bootcamp, I don't see a problem with that.

I think a bigger issue is the lack of willingness of newer people to take advantage of the free resources that are here. There is a list as long as my arm of guys who will post on this forum saying they are looking for a wing, but when you hit them up and let them know where you're going, they'll come up with an excuse as to why they can't go out.

Basically, the quality of the speaker is a moot point if you don't actually do the things that they speak about. I have a feeling that if Mystery, Tyler Durden, Juggler, and Style came to speak to our group, you'd still have a large group of guys treat it like an interesting trip that they had. "Remember that time that Mystery came and spoke. That stuff he said was really interesting, now when I get a little more time next quarter, that's when I'll really go out and try it"

[Khaos]

I don't think newbies should look up to Gurus just based on their claims. I think the speakers have all given good insight and a few good techniques. If after hearing them speak, some people want to drop some coin to take their bootcamp, I don't see a problem with that.

I think a bigger issue is the lack of willingness of newer people to take advantage of the free resources that are here. There is a list as long as my arm of guys who will post on this forum saying they are looking for a wing, but when you hit them up and let them know where you're going, they'll come up with an excuse as to why they can't go out.

Basically, the quality of the speaker is a moot point if you don't actually do the things that they speak about. I have a feeling that if Mystery, Tyler Durden, Juggler, and Style came to speak to our group, you'd still have a large group of guys treat it like an interesting trip that they had. "Remember that time that Mystery came and spoke. That stuff he said was really interesting, now when I get a little more time next quarter, that's when I'll really go out and try it"

You must be a guru.

[red]

At a certain point, either you truly decide to approach, or you just offer yourself excusses. All the technique in the world is useless to someone who does not go for it. In mere months, I have learned much, and it was through experience. Through cold approach.

Most of all, I learned about MYSELF!

Sure, take what people say and apply some of it. Do not use it as doctrine. Think for yourself, folks.

Think of yourself: improving over time like a conquest to uncover burried lost treasure. Advice given to us is like the map to the location. Digging it up the treasure is the work put into actually interacting with women. The digging it up is also developing yourself, in mind, body, and soul. The treasure is what you decide the reaults are in your mind. In other words, dream it, work for it, grasp it.

Keep in mind, the treasure is not always in the FIRST whole we dig, but it is near.

[Bull Run]

You must be a guru.

Guru's offer nothing. Essentially what they offer is patch work repairs to a man's dating life. They have to do this because if they give you the real tools to allow men to be successful in all facets of game then they lose a cutomer. They lose profit. It is in a guru's best interest to keep you blishfully dependent on their next new revolutionary technique or mindless dribble about shit that has very little to do with game. Wiping your ass with all that cash is better for you then spending it on their bullshit. Or, you could just give it to me and I'll use it to buy more steroids to shove up my arse.

Maenad's right. We need real guys giving real solutions to real problems in their real game. And, we need for these guys to offer their services for free as a way of paying it forward to all of the knowledge, experience, and education that these boards and the community has provided for them. If you ever have any level of success in game, you owe it to the guys coming in behind you to provide them with some of your wisdom. If you fail to do so, the community dies and that will just make some other people's lives that much more dark and hopeless.

[voyager]

You can't stop people from spending money on stupid shit. As triumvirate was saying, there is MASSIVE reserves of free material and free communities such as this one. And of course, approaching is free minus maybe the cost of gas to get yourself out of the house. People who spend money on boot camps generally are either looking for a quick fix to some deep-seated problems (not gonna do it), or are looking for someone else to kick their ass into actually doing what they know they need to do (also not gonna do it unless it's just the push they need).

So no, I would not consider the "gurus" as predators here; the real issue is people trying to get something without putting the work in. To me, it's no worse than gyms selling memberships to people who make New Years resolutions.

And guess what, you can't force people to actually want to be better.

[Bull Run]

You can't stop people from spending money on stupid shit. As triumvirate was saying, there is MASSIVE reserves of free material and free communities such as this one. And of course, approaching is free minus maybe the cost of gas to get yourself out of the house. People who spend money on boot camps generally are either looking for a quick fix to some deep-seated problems (not gonna do it), or are looking for someone else to kick their ass into actually doing what they know they need to do (also not gonna do it unless it's just the push they need).

So no, I would not consider the "gurus" as predators here; the real issue is people trying to get something without putting the work in. To me, it's no worse than gyms selling memberships to people who make New Years resolutions.

And guess what, you can't force people to actually want to be better.

I love your spirit, but you missed the point.

Real guys should be teaching real techniques...I'm a capitalist, but this is one part of life that should be free and remain that way.

[red]

You can't make a horse drink, indeed.

Perhaps, someone can show them how good the water tastes, however.

[red]

Trust me, your brain will never be the same as anyone else's.

Stop worrying about it if someone else is making money. You do your job, they do theirs. The average person gains from the free info online, but the free info would not be posted if there was not money being made behind it.

If you don't plan on spending money, then you will save that money. That is awesome. But you are not the same as everyone else, so just let te relative aspects of life affect you less, allow the none sense to pass you by, and you will be better for it.

Just do you, and do you to 1000%.