Lessons in Love

[Guest]

[B][FONT=Times New Roman][I]Lessons in love attract plenty of interest at UNT[/I][/FONT][/B]

[B][I][FONT=Times New Roman]08:36 AM CST on Sunday, February 14, 2010[/FONT][/I][/B]

[B][I][FONT=Calibri]By ERIC AASEN / The Dallas Morning News [/FONT][/I][/B][B][I]
[EMAIL="eaasen@dallasnews.com"][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#0000ff]eaasen@dallasnews.com[/COLOR][/FONT][/EMAIL][FONT=Calibri] [/FONT][/I][/B]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]DENTON – For the college women gathered in Room 131, if you wanna know if he loves you so, it's not in his kiss – it's in his eyes. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I]"His eyes look like they're probing into you, looking into your soul," [/I][I]one exclaimed. [/I][/FONT][/SIZE]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Also Online [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][URL="http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Valentine%27s_Day"][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]More Valentine's Day news[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][URL="http://www.coe.unt.edu/"][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Link:[/B] UNT's College of Education[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][URL="http://www.latimes.com/features/la-he-love8-2010feb08,0,3706593.story"][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B]Link:[/B] Scientists try to measure love[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I]"Pretty blue eyes," [/I][I]another said. [/I][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I]"Almond-shaped eyes." "Soft eyes, so you look at them and you're like, 'Awwww. You look like a puppy.' " "Smiley eyes."[/I][/FONT][/SIZE]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]There's a whole lotta lovin' goin' on in the Romantic Relationships course at the University of North Texas. Yes, college students – some of whom specialize in beer bongs, late-night parties or casual hook-ups – are taking a scholarly approach to personality, friendship, attraction, dating and marriage. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So aside from pretty peepers, does the ideal man have a well-defined jaw? [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Hands shot up in the air so fast, the students' arms practically fell off. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Their professor, Jennifer Acker, quickly whipped them back into reality. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"This may be the hottest guy ever that walks into the room, but is he going to provide for the family and really help out?" [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]His looks may light up a room, but will he really light up a room by replacing that burned-out light bulb? [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"There's nothing sexier than a man with a vacuum cleaner," Acker said. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]For these students, there's no need to search those bottomless piles of self-help books at the bookstore this [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Valentine%27s_Day"][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Valentine's Day[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]. Forget [I]Dr. Phil[/I] . Turn off [I]The Bachelor [/I]and other syrupy find-me-a-lover shows. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]The UNT class was formed just a couple of years ago, but there's so much interest that students are already being turned away. Similar relationship courses are popping up on campuses across the country. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Some students take the class to fulfill requirements for their majors. Others say it will help them in their future careers as counselors. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Then there are those who are motivated by scoring some tips about finding "the one." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Lindsey Teel, 23, is in class partly to learn how to find the right guy, "although I don't want to admit it." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"Romantic relationships are one of the most beautiful forms of human interaction," she said. "They're rare. The good ones are rare." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Done right, these relationships create "a bond of trust," Teel said, leading to some of the most joyful moments in our lives – a first kiss, falling in love, getting married and having children. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Teel and the other students – mostly women – turn to Acker, their Love Lecturer, who guides them through the twists and turns of Cupid's arrow. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Society focuses so much on finding the perfect partner, but not on how to keep that mate, Acker said. She believes college is a good time to learn about creating healthy partnerships and hopes students will apply the lessons in their own lives. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"When you're at that young college age, you're still trying to figure yourself out and yet you're trying to figure out how to have a relationship," said Acker, a lecturer in UNT's College of Education. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Standing in front of dozens of students last week, Acker explained how self-esteem dips among college-age students and how that could challenge relationships. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]She discussed how relationships are a partnership of equals – at least in terms of their attractiveness. Rarely do you find an ugly duckling with a hottie. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Students brought in pictures of famous men and women they found attractive: Brody Jenner, James Franco, Reggie Bush, Jake Gyllenhaal. Jennifer Aniston, Carrie Underwood, Kim Kardashian, Reese Witherspoon. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]One student's fave, [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/Johnny_Depp"][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Johnny Depp[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman], isn't "super-hot, but really unique." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]One woman flashed a picture of Chace Crawford. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]He looks like a 12-year-old, a student said. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"You crush my heart," the woman responded. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"Who wouldn't want to marry [/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://topics.dallasnews.com/topic/John_Krasinski"][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]John Krasinski[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]?" a student said, while others shook their heads. "Look at that face!" [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]With Valentine's Day looming, students sought Acker's advice. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]One said she was dating a guy whose ex-girlfriend demanded that he wow her on the Day of Romance. That makes her uncomfortable, explaining what she'd like to do. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Without hesitating, Acker cut straight to the point. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"Tell him exactly what you told us." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Acker suggested that couples discuss Valentine's Day ahead of time – and decide whether they would get dressed up and go out or exchange gifts. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"In our minds, we have this perfect expectation and picture of what this man is going to do for us on Valentine's Day, yet we never say it out loud," she said. "I don't know how to expect guys to meet those expectations." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Melissa Wish, 21, isn't in the class to look for a man – she has a boyfriend – but she believes the class will help her when she's a family counselor, especially when working with divorcing parents. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"I want to help parents stay friends through the divorce," she said. "I understand why Mom and Dad aren't going to work out, but I can help little Suzie understand why it's not going to work." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]While taking the class, Teel has come to realize that she's been going after the bad guys. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"They seem like they're good and then they're not," she said. "They're like wolves in sheep's clothing." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Matt Whitaker, 26, has learned many lessons from the women of Room 131. [/FONT][/SIZE][/I]
[B][I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]"In the beginning, women want that bad or dangerous guy," Whitaker said, "but at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, they want to know that their boyfriend or husband is there for them and loves, nurtures and protects them." [/FONT][/SIZE][/I][/B]
[B][I][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]So, to the good guys out there: Be patient and be nice. You've got a good shot.[/FONT][/SIZE][/I][/B]
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News flash bitch..............you women want it all! ;)

If you put your bad boy costume on the shelf then they get bored and lose attraction because you became too nice to them. They quit respecting you.

Or, you refuse to put your bad boy costume away and they accuse you of not caring for them, not wanting to be with them, not loving them, blah blah blah blah! Then they are trying to mold you into what it is they want at that moment.

Oh yeah that whole nice guy crap.......it doesn't generate attraction.

[Guest]

This whole article sounds like a load of crap lol. "There's nothing sexier than a man with a vacuum cleener" HAHAHA! Yeah while you have a guy at home that will treat you with the upmost respect and love you till the end of his days and provide for you and your children without any complaint YOU are out blowing some douchebag that will treats you like shit but is a real man.

I didn't see anything about it being a coed class(which I imagine it is) and if it is I should sign up for it when I go to UNT and argue every single point the professor makes :)

Or if it's not a coed course I could always go and spectate the class ;)


Interesting post Uncle Howie.

[Guest]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Taking a second glance at this post I picked out the following quotes that bugged me the most(I am sure we could all tear this professor a new asshole lol).[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[B][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]
[B][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"In the beginning, women want that bad or dangerous guy," Whitaker said, "but at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, they want to know that their boyfriend or husband is there for them and loves, nurtures and protects them." [/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]
[B][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Sure they want to know their boyfriend or husband is there for them and loves, nurtures and protects them, but they want it to be a BAD or DANGEROUS guy that does all the loving, nurturing, and protecting. Nice guys don't stand a chance :)

[B][I]So, to the good guys out there: Be patient and be nice. You've got a good shot.[/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

So her advice to me would be "Drop all this molding yourself into a man stuff because you already are a man. Just wait and you'll find someone". If I stopped this I would be alone for the rest of my life. Guaranteed.

Another prime example of women wanting something different than what they say they want.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Urban Legend;34957][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Taking a second glance at this post I picked out the following quotes that bugged me the most(I am sure we could all tear this professor a new asshole lol).[/SIZE][/FONT]


[B][I][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"In the beginning, women want that bad or dangerous guy," Whitaker said, "but at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, they want to know that their boyfriend or husband is there for them and loves, nurtures and protects them." [/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Sure they want to know their boyfriend or husband is there for them and loves, nurtures and protects them, but they want it to be a BAD or DANGEROUS guy that does all the loving, nurturing, and protecting. Nice guys don't stand a chance :)

[B][I]So, to the good guys out there: Be patient and be nice. You've got a good shot.[/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

So her advice to me would be "Drop all this molding yourself into a man stuff because you already are a man. Just wait and you'll find someone". If I stopped this I would be alone for the rest of my life. Guaranteed.

Another prime example of women wanting something different than what they say they want.[/QUOTE]



I don't think it's a function of women not knowing what they want, instead I think it's a function of a woman getting exactly what she wants but not understanding what exactly it is that she's trying to get.

I think what happens is that women want to meet a wild guy, an untamed man exuding sexuality, confidence, and animalisim (I just made that word up). The girl 'gets off' on being with a guy that is his own man, with his own rules. She likes the feeling of being with a guy that she knows could bolt at any moment. She likes the feeling of being the ONE to get him to STAY. Generally, she complies with his demands, whatever those may be. She wants to please him, to make him happy, to create a niche in his life, to be irreplaceable to him. Eventually, the guy grows to care for this woman because she allows him the lattitude to be both his OWNn man and HER man. And, that's when everything goes to shit...

Over time, the woman chops away at him. Like a child, she will act out and push boundaries. She'll see how much she can get away with. Most men don't see these flare ups for what they are: she is testing your manhood, she is trying to incrementally take the source of your power away from you, she's trying to domesticate you. With enough time and effort, the woman turns the guy into the 'nice guy' that she always thought she wanted. He becomes the guy that's not going to leave her, that will care for her, that will nurture her. But, in becoming that person, she has essentially destroyed the parts of him that she fell in love with.

Once a woman no longer has a fear that you will leave her, then she will no longer respect and value you as a man. Just as a child should have a healthy respect and fear of their father, so should a woman of her man. She should always have an underlying fear that you will no longer be in her life.

Women want to catch and tame a man. In doing so, she has created what she thinks is the best of both worlds: a wild man that she knows will not leave her. The problem is that by taming a man, she has stripped away the wildness that he inherently possesses. It's a tragic case of getting exactly what you want and it not being what you bargained for...

I think they know what they want, I just don't think they understand how unrealistic their request truly is.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Bull Run;34958]

Over time, the woman chops away at him. Like a child, she will act out and push boundaries. She'll see how much she can get away with. Most men don't see these flare ups for what they are: she is testing your manhood, she is trying to incrementally take the source of your power away from you, she's trying to domesticate you. With enough time and effort, the woman turns the guy into the 'nice guy' that she always thought she wanted. He becomes the guy that's not going to leave her, that will care for her, that will nurture her. But, in becoming that person, she has essentially destroyed the parts of him that she fell in love with.

[/QUOTE]


So maybe the guy should be that person to begin with? The problem is that guy won't get that girl. He will get "a" girl but maybe not one to his liking.

So what should a guy do? Should he morph himself into said guy so he can get said girl? Or should he just stay the way he is and hope that a decent girl comes along?

[Guest]

Bull Run YOU should be teaching a class such as the one above, or at least someone similar to you.

I wonder if there will ever be a higher education class on social dynamics... I mean the type of social dynamics we are learning, not the watered down shit they teach in like psychology and stuff.

[Guest]

Good stuff BR, thats exactly how my marriage went. It didn't fail because of lack of compatibility, it failed for the reasons you mentioned.

I'm with PC, how the hell do you win this battle? I still have this same problem with every relationship I get into involving a female. Nowdays I'm very resistant about turning into that nice guy. I got walked on by an exwife when I turned into a nice guy. When these girls I date start wanting Mr. nice guy I usually cut ties. It makes me sad to kick a good girl to the curb, but they always end up wanting more and more and I feel I can't be myself. They always call me out for not making them a "priority" in their life but they like everything else about me.

I'm so confused on what to do. Finding hot girls with some value isn't the hard part, but keeping that relationship from developing past a certain point is!

[Guest]

[QUOTE=playercool;34959]So maybe the guy should be that person to begin with? The problem is that guy won't get that girl. He will get "a" girl but maybe not one to his liking.

So what should a guy do? Should he morph himself into said guy so he can get said girl? Or should he just stay the way he is and hope that a decent girl comes along?[/QUOTE]



That's the double-edged sword right there my friend. If the guy is the nice guy to begin with then he doesn't have to suffer the indignity of having a woman try to change him, but he doesn't get to select the girl he gets. Instead, they'll end up selecting him and she MOST LIKELY won't be what he wants.

What should we do? Well, that's tough. I've actually been seeing a therapist about many of these matters. I've told him all about the Community and what we're all about, which he finds utterly fascinating. He's acknowledged that this dynamic does exist. It is a real thing in relationships. That old saying, a woman gets married and she changes, a man gets married and the woman changes him is very real and true.

The way I think about it is like this, in general, a class can only cover educational material at the pace of the slowest learner. So, the pace is set by the least intelligent person in class (that's why they try to separate the smart kids from the dumb kids). Well, men and women are much the same. We live life at completely different speeds. In general, men are moving much faster than women, but in order for a man to be with a woman over the long-term he has to slow down to her speed. It's virtually impossible for her to speed up to match our speed so we have to 'lower' our speed to suit her.

As men, when we choose to be in a relationship we are the ones that have to make the most sacrifices and concessions. We loose our independence, we have to take on the live of someone else (provider), we become monogamous, etc. This is just how things are, right or wrong, fair or not. That's how male-female long-term relationships are structured. We are not going to be able to reverse thousands of years of evolution and socialization. So, we have two choices: accept that life for what it is OR don't choose that life.

I don't think it has anything at all to do with the quality of a woman. I think it has to do with being OK with the idea of choosing the lifestyle that comes with being with a woman long-term.

I can tell you that I've dated some really bad ass women over the years. Girls that I cared for very much. My last LTR, whom most of you know, was in that category. I loved her very much, still do. But, looking back on our relationship I realized that even though she was bad ass in many ways, there was still one universal truth: she wanted a long-term relationship. She wanted the house and kids and a dog and board games around the dinner table and security and safety. In order for that lifestyle to occur, virtually every aspect of my lifestyle had to change. As time went on with us, I could sense that the power dynamics were changing. She was pushing and poking and proding me. Challenging my barriers, seeing how far she could go and what she could get away with.

She was/is unique and special, but she is still a woman. And, no matter what, virtually all women are going to want you to settle down with them and live a lifestyle that doesn't even come close to resembling the one you lived before you met her.

So, the questions we have to ask ourselves are: What do I want? Am I willing to alter my lifestyle? Can I accept living a life where I'm not the man I used to be?

Maybe it's just a function of growing up and maturing. I think it's just a fact of life. If you want marriage, kids, a family, etc. then you're going to have to turn your back on the lifestyle you had and embrace one that may be less exciting but possibily more meaningful. Obviously, you'd only be willing to do it for the most bad ass chick that comes at the right time. But, make no mistake, if you're going to be in an LTR you are going to have to change and make concessions. There's just no getting around it.

[Guest]

I'm going to go ahead and say what I think the real problem is. The continued pussification of the American male by the Feminist propaganda we call the media.

How many commercials have you seen where the Women treats the man like a DOG and that idiot just accepts it with his droopy eyes. What does that teach women? That they are always right, they can have the man do anything, and he will just accept it. That men should not act like men, they should be subordinate to their wife.

A real Man doesn't put up with shit from anybody, least of all his family.

All these shows like Sex and the City are teaching women that they don't need men for anything other than sex. It is teaching women to be less feminine (Feminism, hah!) and it is simply making all these young women unfit for marriage and motherhood. It teaches them that their natural biological function in life, to support a family, is wrong and that they need to have careers to be fulfilled. NOT a happy family life. All these American women think they are *free* and that the only way to get a man is with sex. The fact is the more men a women has sex with the less fit she will ever be for marriage. The more men she gives herself to she can never really give herself to one man.

How can you marry a women whom you have to compete with as providers? There are natural functions of Men and Women. A Man's function is as provider and protector. A Womans function is as nurturer and supporter. [B]I will never marry a woman who is career driven.[/B] A woman should be there to support her family. What kind of life is it for a child if his Mommy and Daddy are working all the time, competing against each other? Not a happy home life, and will most likely end in divorce. Our Grandparents never got divorced, because they followed the *traditional* path of woman as caregiver and man as protector.

I would say there is a 0% chance I will marry an American woman.

I have dated a million of them and none of them are fit for marriage.

[Guest]

Great post BR; I look forward to your talk next weekend.

Anyways, I would LOVE to take this course or possibly set up some type of discussion with the class. Several ofthe lair guys could go and debate what really is the truth...