The friends zone and the ladder theory

[Guest]

So, me and one of my friends where talking the other day and somehow the ladder theory came up. If you don't know what that is, google it.

Now, this applies more to ones social circle and your group of friends, this really doesn't apply to cold approaches.

According to the ladder theory, there is a group of guys that a girl knows and hangs out with that she would possibly have sex with at some point, and there is a second group of guys that she would never have sex with because she views them as being in the "friend zone".

Now, my question is, what sets the guys apart in these two groups? Guys in both of these groups are in her social circle, are "friends" with her, and are not necessarily sleeping with her or in a romantic relationship with her.

Example: Katie, Jon, Bill, and Ashley are all in the same circle or clique and hang out on a regular basis. Katie is going out with Todd, who is not in her circle and she met at the bar. Todd and Katie break up, Jon is on Katie's sexual ladder and Bill is on Katie's friendship ladder, thus Jon could get with Katie if he perused her, but Bill could not since he is stuck in the friendzone. Now why is it that Jon can hook up with her and Bill can't? They are both somewhat "friends", but what sets these two friends apart?

I guess you see this more in High school where everyone dates around within their social circle, I am curious as to what sets apart each of these categories.

[Guest]

I have two theories about this, and the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

In the first theory, friend zone means a woman likes you but simply does not see you as a sexual entity, and therefore would literally never dream of having sex with you. Therefore the only way to stay out of the zone is to be a sexual person in her eyes by talking about other women, being with other women, and actively disqualifying her as a potential partner. (of course she may then come up with reasons to disqualify you, in order to justify the rejection).


My second theory is that a woman is sexually attracted on some level to every man she is friends with, but doesn't view them all with equal value. Only some have just enough value for her to consider sleeping with them. In this case, the only way out of the friend zone is to build up your value. Here for instance, perhaps you are viewed as a sexual entity, because you sleep with a lot of other girls, but maybe she sees herself as higher value than all the women you hook up with.

[Guest]

I'm guessing that at some point Katie has told Jon, "No.", but hasn't said anything to Bill because Bill is too much of a pussy to pull the trigger and grab Katie's nice, supple, round, tight ass.... or something else that could be construed as sexual.

Just a guess though.

[Guest]

I think Finesse summed it up nicely.

There are soo many variables. I think the answer lies heavily in understanding the social hierarchy within the group of male friends. I think it is important to understand how Bill and Jon interract with each other as well as how they both interract with Katie. Jon may simply be more of a leader than Bill as far as flow of conversation in the circle, as far as venue picks for the group or what have you. Jon may be more possessive of Katie. Jon may greet Katie first with a hug or peck on the cheek and Bill may be more stand offish with physical contact... who knows...

Katie more than likely understands the risk she would take if she decides to sleep with one of the guys from the circle. Sleeping with one of the guys could create enough awkward drama to uproot the normal functions of the circle (ive witnessed this happen before). If Katie and Bill dont work out, it is unlikely that Bill and Katie could continue to be apart of the same social circle without any awkward feelings and this would change the chemistry of the group. If Katie and Jon dont work out maybe Jon has a big enough sack to say fuckit and not let it phase him and can continue to be friends with Katie. Maybe Katie doesnt want to take the risk of destroying the Bill ladder but isnt quite as concerned with the Jon ladder. Maybe Katie values the Bill ladder more because it fuels Katies self esteem or provides her with the attention she craves and she doesnt want to lose this.

[B]Katie may qualify herself more to be apart of Jons ladder but Bills ladder qualifies to Katie.[/B]

I dont feel that the only way to stay out of the friend zone necessarily depends on the expression of sexuality although it helps to a certain extent. All girls whether they want to admit it or not are curious about a guy that is successful with other women. Maybe Jon is actively pursuing other women and is successful in that category. Maybe Jon avoids seeking emotional support with Katie and maybe Bill does the opposite.

Who knows really? There are alot of maybes and alot bridges to gap in order to have a clear idea.

[Guest]

You know, Gunslinger, you can't make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit. Just remember that.

;)