[QUOTE=Cash;34244]Now that you have sharpened your skills your intentions will always be judged as such.[/QUOTE]
And, right there gentlemen, is the most articulate way to communicate the reality that we face and that we have created for ourselves.
This is why it's best that we NEVER, EVER mention our involvement in the Community, regardless of how proud we are of our progress. Sometimes, it seems, that the single thing that provides us with the greatest amount of value as a man is something that we can never tell them about...
Transforming ourselves from an AFC to a PUA...I suppose it's going to just have to be our little secret...
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
Stop Everything Immediately!!!
15 posts
• Page 2 of 2 • 1, 2
by Guest » Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:23 am
[QUOTE][B]Either love her for her want to be your only and because of who she[/B] is or let her go because of her neediness.[/QUOTE]I think what I was saying was a bit unclear. I agree with you br that the majority of the time the girl will not understand. Teaching her social skills won't make a difference either most the time either, but honestly there are not many other things to try. I have met girls however that do respond to reason. Ones that when you explain things to them in a clear way will understand. Will they like it? Maybe not, but you can get them to where they understand. Not every girl is just a completely emotional girly girl. Heck sometimes us guys act more "girly". There are girls of every type and some will respond, some will be cool with it if you explain it in the right way and clearly explain your intentions.
[QUOTE]
And, just like with anything else you actively learn to do, you need to practice those skills otherwise you begin to lose them. Most women will never understand this because they're accustom to being with a man that naturally has said skills and doesn't need to sharpen them or maintain them because these skills have been hardwired into his brain and personality.[/QUOTE]Naturals aren't born with their skills. They had to learn them just like us. They lose them like us as well, but there is a main difference I have seen between naturals and puas. What's that? Puas are always wondering how they are doing socially. They are always thinking back to the days when they were a loser. Even if they aren't showing it normally a deep part of them is thinking it. If a pua can get past this point. If he can begin to understand that he can in fact get women just as good as any natural. Then truly what is the difference between a pua and a natural? The great part about us is that we remember the steps it took a natural may not. He may just be stuck in the cold if he ever loses his game.
[QUOTE]
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Women are inherently insecure. There are a lot of reasons for this, which I will not go into, but trust me women yearn to be with a man and they fight to keep their man. They will not tolerate the slightest hint that you may or may not be there for them in the future. Their biological, reproductive, and social wiring dictate to them that they have a faithful, reliable, man that can provide for them and their future offspring.[/QUOTE]Can't argue with this although I'm not sure it's quite as extreme as you present. Even the best of us have our insecure moments though.
[QUOTE]Personally, ever single relationship I've ever had while in the Community has gone to shit because 1) I fought to maintain my social skills and they never understood what I was really doing (what my real intentions were, despite my best efforts to articulate them) OR 2) I allowed my social skills to slip and she got bored and lost interest.
[/QUOTE]Socially my skills went to the shitter for sure, but relationships have made me better overall with women and people. I think this is all being presented that relationships are evil, but there is much to be gained. Relationships can teach you how to connect on a deep level with someone else. How to read someone. What not to say. How to give a genuine compliment. How to love another. How to comprimise and tons of other things.
[QUOTE]
I've often struggled with what is the appropriate thing to do with women. And, I think, in many ways, it's a cruel, irony that the things we learn make us more attractive to women but keeping those same skills sharp are, generally, not allowed in a relationship.[/QUOTE]Not sure what you mean here exactly. I know girls that I've been with have still found it attractive if I can lead a group. It is still attractive if I banter and flirt with her. It is still attractive if I touch her in ways she likes. It is still attractive if I dress properly. It is still attractive if I work out. The only real difference is there must be more of a focus on her when in a social group. How is this a problem though? When I like a girl I naturally focus more on her. If something upsets her then I see it on her face and we resolve it.
Tons of things can upset girls, but if you learn their language.. and I know this sounds gay, but learn to think like a girl. Take a moment in her shoes.. It will make the whole relationship thing not as difficult. Like maybe it's just me, but I didn't seem to have alot of the problems in my relationship that you guys are talking about. We did have problems, but we resolved them. We talked it out. I understood her and she understood me. I love that time. I love women so much that even their freakouts and sometimes weird shit just makes me want to understand it all more.
[QUOTE]
Now that you have sharpened your skills your intentions will always be judged as such.[/QUOTE]Maybe at first, but with a more confident girl and yes they do exist. Mainly outside of the bar club scene. Why would a confident girl need to go get her ego validated like that? and why would a confident girl even have friends that needed their ego validated like that? Yes there are a very few confident girls in bars and clubs, but honestly most the girls there are looking for some sort of validation. At least that has been my experience.
Yea I tend to ramble some. A confident girl over time would see that your actions are true to your intentions. Once trust is built a guy can be basically be home free. Too bad many people guys and girls tend to just throw this trust in the trash for the next new model... Tis life I guess..
[QUOTE]
And, just like with anything else you actively learn to do, you need to practice those skills otherwise you begin to lose them. Most women will never understand this because they're accustom to being with a man that naturally has said skills and doesn't need to sharpen them or maintain them because these skills have been hardwired into his brain and personality.[/QUOTE]Naturals aren't born with their skills. They had to learn them just like us. They lose them like us as well, but there is a main difference I have seen between naturals and puas. What's that? Puas are always wondering how they are doing socially. They are always thinking back to the days when they were a loser. Even if they aren't showing it normally a deep part of them is thinking it. If a pua can get past this point. If he can begin to understand that he can in fact get women just as good as any natural. Then truly what is the difference between a pua and a natural? The great part about us is that we remember the steps it took a natural may not. He may just be stuck in the cold if he ever loses his game.
[QUOTE]
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Women are inherently insecure. There are a lot of reasons for this, which I will not go into, but trust me women yearn to be with a man and they fight to keep their man. They will not tolerate the slightest hint that you may or may not be there for them in the future. Their biological, reproductive, and social wiring dictate to them that they have a faithful, reliable, man that can provide for them and their future offspring.[/QUOTE]Can't argue with this although I'm not sure it's quite as extreme as you present. Even the best of us have our insecure moments though.
[QUOTE]Personally, ever single relationship I've ever had while in the Community has gone to shit because 1) I fought to maintain my social skills and they never understood what I was really doing (what my real intentions were, despite my best efforts to articulate them) OR 2) I allowed my social skills to slip and she got bored and lost interest.
[/QUOTE]Socially my skills went to the shitter for sure, but relationships have made me better overall with women and people. I think this is all being presented that relationships are evil, but there is much to be gained. Relationships can teach you how to connect on a deep level with someone else. How to read someone. What not to say. How to give a genuine compliment. How to love another. How to comprimise and tons of other things.
[QUOTE]
I've often struggled with what is the appropriate thing to do with women. And, I think, in many ways, it's a cruel, irony that the things we learn make us more attractive to women but keeping those same skills sharp are, generally, not allowed in a relationship.[/QUOTE]Not sure what you mean here exactly. I know girls that I've been with have still found it attractive if I can lead a group. It is still attractive if I banter and flirt with her. It is still attractive if I touch her in ways she likes. It is still attractive if I dress properly. It is still attractive if I work out. The only real difference is there must be more of a focus on her when in a social group. How is this a problem though? When I like a girl I naturally focus more on her. If something upsets her then I see it on her face and we resolve it.
Tons of things can upset girls, but if you learn their language.. and I know this sounds gay, but learn to think like a girl. Take a moment in her shoes.. It will make the whole relationship thing not as difficult. Like maybe it's just me, but I didn't seem to have alot of the problems in my relationship that you guys are talking about. We did have problems, but we resolved them. We talked it out. I understood her and she understood me. I love that time. I love women so much that even their freakouts and sometimes weird shit just makes me want to understand it all more.
[QUOTE]
Now that you have sharpened your skills your intentions will always be judged as such.[/QUOTE]Maybe at first, but with a more confident girl and yes they do exist. Mainly outside of the bar club scene. Why would a confident girl need to go get her ego validated like that? and why would a confident girl even have friends that needed their ego validated like that? Yes there are a very few confident girls in bars and clubs, but honestly most the girls there are looking for some sort of validation. At least that has been my experience.
Yea I tend to ramble some. A confident girl over time would see that your actions are true to your intentions. Once trust is built a guy can be basically be home free. Too bad many people guys and girls tend to just throw this trust in the trash for the next new model... Tis life I guess..
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:38 pm
[QUOTE=Bull Run;34243]Personally, ever single relationship I've ever had while in the Community has gone to shit because 1) I fought to maintain my social skills and they never understood what I was really doing (what my real intentions were, despite my best efforts to articulate them) OR 2) I allowed my social skills to slip and she got bored and lost interest.[/QUOTE]
I would like to take a stab at reframing this with more internal attribution than external attribution:
Relationships tend to fail for a PUA because: 1) practicing social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women is important to him and he does not compromise this aspect of himself despite the risk of losing the relationship, or 2) he sacrificed the ability to practice social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women, which is important to him, and that cased him to resent her, caused her to lose respect for him, and, in turn, caused both parties to exhibit behavior that killed attraction.
[quote]It's a double edged sword. I think the only thing you can really do is do what ever it is that makes you happy and makes you a better person. If you're happy letting your skills slip, then, by all means allow them to do so. If you're happy with keeping them sharp, then, by all means, do so. Just understand that in either scenario you still run the risk of losing her or pushing her away.
I've often struggled with what is the appropriate thing to do with women. And, I think, in many ways, it's a cruel, irony that the things we learn make us more attractive to women but keeping those same skills sharp are, generally, not allowed in a relationship.[/quote]
I somewhat disagree with this. If practicing social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women is truly important to you, then yeah you're right. But I believe if you internalize the skills to a point where you have nothing left to prove to yourself and you just become an attractive guy without routines and gambits, then you can enter a new relationship frame where you don't settle, you don't compromise things that are important to you, and you continue to be the attractive man she fell for. That is, if you get to a point where you stop emulating an attractive man and just become an attractive man, then there is nothing to give up.
Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but this is my goal anyway.
I would like to take a stab at reframing this with more internal attribution than external attribution:
Relationships tend to fail for a PUA because: 1) practicing social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women is important to him and he does not compromise this aspect of himself despite the risk of losing the relationship, or 2) he sacrificed the ability to practice social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women, which is important to him, and that cased him to resent her, caused her to lose respect for him, and, in turn, caused both parties to exhibit behavior that killed attraction.
[quote]It's a double edged sword. I think the only thing you can really do is do what ever it is that makes you happy and makes you a better person. If you're happy letting your skills slip, then, by all means allow them to do so. If you're happy with keeping them sharp, then, by all means, do so. Just understand that in either scenario you still run the risk of losing her or pushing her away.
I've often struggled with what is the appropriate thing to do with women. And, I think, in many ways, it's a cruel, irony that the things we learn make us more attractive to women but keeping those same skills sharp are, generally, not allowed in a relationship.[/quote]
I somewhat disagree with this. If practicing social skills specific to generating sexual attraction in women is truly important to you, then yeah you're right. But I believe if you internalize the skills to a point where you have nothing left to prove to yourself and you just become an attractive guy without routines and gambits, then you can enter a new relationship frame where you don't settle, you don't compromise things that are important to you, and you continue to be the attractive man she fell for. That is, if you get to a point where you stop emulating an attractive man and just become an attractive man, then there is nothing to give up.
Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but this is my goal anyway.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:14 pm
I actually agree with the internalization point. I think that if your behavior before and after you decide to be exclusive are congruent, you'll have less of a problem with your "pua skills" interfering with the well being of your relationship. I mean that, of course, within reason.
Obviously some behavior needs to stop when you're with someone...like approaching sets, most kino, direct innuendo, etc. But you can interact with strangers of both sexes comfortably, entertain, be interested, and befriend. I speak only from personal experience. When I was in a "fake it 'til you make it" phase (meaning I was in character when I would go out and talk to girls) I had issues once we got comfortable, because I dropped the act. I was essentially a different person. The first part of the relationship where I was still in character went smoothly as far as my social butterfly-ness was concerned. It wasn't until I got comfortable, dropped the act, and occasionally picked it back up that problems arose.
Now, I feel that most of my knowledge is internalized. I do the things that need to be done automatically, and I do it to everyone. It just seems to me that it's now accepted as part of who I am, and therefore causes no problems in my LTR. She actually specifically mentioned how she likes my super personable outgoing personality, especially when we're out and about. She mainly has all male friends, and through me she's made female friends.
Obviously some behavior needs to stop when you're with someone...like approaching sets, most kino, direct innuendo, etc. But you can interact with strangers of both sexes comfortably, entertain, be interested, and befriend. I speak only from personal experience. When I was in a "fake it 'til you make it" phase (meaning I was in character when I would go out and talk to girls) I had issues once we got comfortable, because I dropped the act. I was essentially a different person. The first part of the relationship where I was still in character went smoothly as far as my social butterfly-ness was concerned. It wasn't until I got comfortable, dropped the act, and occasionally picked it back up that problems arose.
Now, I feel that most of my knowledge is internalized. I do the things that need to be done automatically, and I do it to everyone. It just seems to me that it's now accepted as part of who I am, and therefore causes no problems in my LTR. She actually specifically mentioned how she likes my super personable outgoing personality, especially when we're out and about. She mainly has all male friends, and through me she's made female friends.
- Guest
by Guest » Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:33 pm
[QUOTE]I had issues once we got comfortable, because I dropped the act. I was essentially a different person. The first part of the relationship where I was still in character went smoothly as far as my social butterfly-ness was concerned. It wasn't until I got comfortable, dropped the act, and occasionally picked it back up that problems arose.[/QUOTE]
I think this point is one of the hardest ones. The step from going from the "fake it til you make it" mindset to one who actually believes in themselves is similar to a boy becoming a man, but is definately worth it. That's how my relationships really helped me is that they helped me to stop all the actingand start just being. I lost a couple girls in the mid stages that I thought I really got along with, but I really think it was all worth it. Plus the way we view our past is a great determinant to the way we make our future.
[QUOTE]Now, I feel that most of my knowledge is internalized. I do the things that need to be done automatically, and I do it to everyone. It just seems to me that it's now accepted as part of who I am, and therefore causes no problems in my LTR. She actually specifically mentioned how she likes my super personable outgoing personality, especially when we're out and about. She mainly has all male friends, and through me she's made female friends.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could say that I was fully at that point, but I am not. Some days I'm there and some I'm not so I know I'm close. I got a similar comment from my last gf although I still got the fear and jealousy as bull run was talking about. I think it's cool that you have come that far smirks. I agree with your way of channeling your social skills in a way that is beneficial to both your gf and yourself and I think all of us should at least be attempting to do that.
I think this point is one of the hardest ones. The step from going from the "fake it til you make it" mindset to one who actually believes in themselves is similar to a boy becoming a man, but is definately worth it. That's how my relationships really helped me is that they helped me to stop all the actingand start just being. I lost a couple girls in the mid stages that I thought I really got along with, but I really think it was all worth it. Plus the way we view our past is a great determinant to the way we make our future.
[QUOTE]Now, I feel that most of my knowledge is internalized. I do the things that need to be done automatically, and I do it to everyone. It just seems to me that it's now accepted as part of who I am, and therefore causes no problems in my LTR. She actually specifically mentioned how she likes my super personable outgoing personality, especially when we're out and about. She mainly has all male friends, and through me she's made female friends.[/QUOTE]
I wish I could say that I was fully at that point, but I am not. Some days I'm there and some I'm not so I know I'm close. I got a similar comment from my last gf although I still got the fear and jealousy as bull run was talking about. I think it's cool that you have come that far smirks. I agree with your way of channeling your social skills in a way that is beneficial to both your gf and yourself and I think all of us should at least be attempting to do that.
- Guest
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