Incongruence and framing hand in hand

[Guest]

All of this framing and manipulation and shit fucking creeps me out...

Understand, I'm not calling you guys creepy, just saying that I hate this notion that we believe that have as much influence over people as we like to believe. IMO, it doesn't work that way.

When I'm in set, I have zero intention to manipulate the girl into being attracted to me. I simply roll up to her and be. That's it. And, you know what? It works pretty fucking well for me.

People do what they want. To say that somehow we have this power over a person's decisions is ridiculous. Sure, you can lead her to an outcome, but it's up to her to follow you there.

I'm not sure one can frame other people. I think you can build an internal frame. I think you can project the frame to a woman that this is how it's going to be...I'm going to be charming and funny, you're going to enjoy my company, and then you're going to return the favor with full on fellatio. You can put that out in the world. But, again, I think it's on the girl to decide to walk into that frame.

The meaning of the word manipulate or control or, even, influence all have negative connotations to me. Don't get me wrong. I've spent my fair share of time trying to learn how to be a master manipulator and I would say that I reasonably successful at it. But, there's also something else I learned. More often than not, women could tell that I was manipulating them. They could see what I was doing. I'm over here thinking I'm so fucking clever, while she's over there thinking "I know what he's trying to do, but I'll fuck him anyway because [insert any number of reasons]."

When I see guys in set trying to manipulate or run hardcore framing tactics it makes me cringe. And, you know what? I'm of the opinion that the girl will just simply think you're creepy. You might think you're being clever and smart and that she's simple little creature...which is generally true for anything else...but, this is the game of socializing. Women are so tuned into the act of socializing that they can see that shit from a mile away. She may not be able to tell someone that he did this and said that to try to get me to do this or comply here, but she's going to think you're 'off.'

I think frames are meant to be subtle. And, they're meant to provide her with a road map of how you expect her to act if she's going to be with you. It's more or less a list of unspoken requirements for you to trade your time to be with her. Again, you show her the way, but it's up to her to decide to come along.

I think everyone would be best served by dropping the whole idea that you manipulate the world to be whatever it is that you want it to be. That's as futile as shoving pizza in your pie hole all day, sitting on the coach doing nothing, and expecting to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. It's totally unrealistic. Instead, turn that energy inward. Focus on yourself. Worry about your frames. Worry about what's going on with you. IMO, the concept of manipulating puts out a kind of quiet desperation. It subcommunicates that you don't have enough inside of you to convince and attract others so you've resorted to getting people to see you differently. Why don't you just try to be whatever it is that you want people to see you as, instead of trying to fool them into believing that you're something you're not?