I think we focus way too much on value and attraction switches in this community.
IMO investment is directly correlated to three things and three things only. 1.) time spent together 2.) depth/width of rapport building 3.) have you fucked yet?
The problem I see a lot of people having in the field has nothing to do with value and everything to do with communication and social skills.
If you're not hooking sets it's probably because you're 1.) mis-calibrating energy levels 2.) not making interesting enough conversation.
Dallas PUA
The Pickup Artist Playground
pre-ejectuation
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by Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:16 am
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]I think we focus way too much on value and attraction switches in this community.[/quote1218723742]
I respectfully disagree my friend. I don't think we focus on it enough. Fact is that PU is about building value.
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]The problem I see a lot of people having in the field has nothing to do with value and everything to do with communication and social skills.
If you're not hooking sets it's probably because you're 1.) mis-calibrating energy levels 2.) not making interesting enough conversation.[/quote1218723742]
I agree with this but don't you think that by going about and learning to be more sociable you actually are building value?
Whether or not people want to admit it, we do judge each other based on our perceived value of each other. We may not actively think with our higher functioning brain about another's value, but subconsciously that's how we assess everything.
Keep in mind that value is fluid. Some nights a chick may only want to have sex, nothing more. In this case, the guy that makes her feel most comfortable and exudes a sexual state will have the most value in her eyes.
And, interesting conversation definitely is about value. People value those that intrigue them because it's a rare occurrence.
I think pretty much all social interactions are explained by value.
I respectfully disagree my friend. I don't think we focus on it enough. Fact is that PU is about building value.
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]The problem I see a lot of people having in the field has nothing to do with value and everything to do with communication and social skills.
If you're not hooking sets it's probably because you're 1.) mis-calibrating energy levels 2.) not making interesting enough conversation.[/quote1218723742]
I agree with this but don't you think that by going about and learning to be more sociable you actually are building value?
Whether or not people want to admit it, we do judge each other based on our perceived value of each other. We may not actively think with our higher functioning brain about another's value, but subconsciously that's how we assess everything.
Keep in mind that value is fluid. Some nights a chick may only want to have sex, nothing more. In this case, the guy that makes her feel most comfortable and exudes a sexual state will have the most value in her eyes.
And, interesting conversation definitely is about value. People value those that intrigue them because it's a rare occurrence.
I think pretty much all social interactions are explained by value.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:53 pm
[quote1218750642=grimm1111]
[quote1218749840=Bull Run]
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]I think we focus way too much on value and attraction switches in this community.[/quote1218723742]
I respectfully disagree my friend. I don't think we focus on it enough. Fact is that PU is about building value.
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]The problem I see a lot of people having in the field has nothing to do with value and everything to do with communication and social skills.
If you're not hooking sets it's probably because you're 1.) mis-calibrating energy levels 2.) not making interesting enough conversation.[/quote1218723742]
I agree with this but don't you think that by going about and learning to be more sociable you actually are building value?
Whether or not people want to admit it, we do judge each other based on our perceived value of each other. We may not actively think with our higher functioning brain about another's value, but subconsciously that's how we assess everything.
Keep in mind that value is fluid. Some nights a chick may only want to have sex, nothing more. In this case, the guy that makes her feel most comfortable and exudes a sexual state will have the most value in her eyes.
And, interesting conversation definitely is about value. People value those that intrigue them because it's a rare occurrence.
I think pretty much all social interactions are explained by value.
[/quote1218749840]
[/quote1218750642]
By all means man, no problem. I was really rash in my reply there I don't think I really explained this thought very well at all.
I actually agree with you but then you're defining "value" in much broader terms than I am.
If having social skills / social intuition is a form of value, then of course yes you are right.
You're an economist man. Of course you are going to see a lot of things through the lens of utility and value, and it's a totally awesome way of looking at pickup. I'm always learning a lot from you because you have an awesome perspective on things.
I'm a marketing/sales guy. I would say pickup is about learning how to communicate.
I think we're actually agreeing with each other, but we're using different terms to describe some of the same things.
What I meant to say was to Angel's original question - I don't think his losing sets at that point in the pickup is necessarily 100% attributed to him not DHVing or displaying enough value via hitting attraction switches (leader of men, protector of loved ones, etc.) What I would say is that may be part of it, but very likely it's something else altogether. Maybe he is kinoing wrong. Maybe he is coming across too strong or too weak. maybe his energy is off. it could be a myriad of things we just don't know until we see him.
[quote1218749840=Bull Run]
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]I think we focus way too much on value and attraction switches in this community.[/quote1218723742]
I respectfully disagree my friend. I don't think we focus on it enough. Fact is that PU is about building value.
[quote1218723742=grimm1111]The problem I see a lot of people having in the field has nothing to do with value and everything to do with communication and social skills.
If you're not hooking sets it's probably because you're 1.) mis-calibrating energy levels 2.) not making interesting enough conversation.[/quote1218723742]
I agree with this but don't you think that by going about and learning to be more sociable you actually are building value?
Whether or not people want to admit it, we do judge each other based on our perceived value of each other. We may not actively think with our higher functioning brain about another's value, but subconsciously that's how we assess everything.
Keep in mind that value is fluid. Some nights a chick may only want to have sex, nothing more. In this case, the guy that makes her feel most comfortable and exudes a sexual state will have the most value in her eyes.
And, interesting conversation definitely is about value. People value those that intrigue them because it's a rare occurrence.
I think pretty much all social interactions are explained by value.
[/quote1218749840]
[/quote1218750642]
By all means man, no problem. I was really rash in my reply there I don't think I really explained this thought very well at all.
I actually agree with you but then you're defining "value" in much broader terms than I am.
If having social skills / social intuition is a form of value, then of course yes you are right.
You're an economist man. Of course you are going to see a lot of things through the lens of utility and value, and it's a totally awesome way of looking at pickup. I'm always learning a lot from you because you have an awesome perspective on things.
I'm a marketing/sales guy. I would say pickup is about learning how to communicate.
I think we're actually agreeing with each other, but we're using different terms to describe some of the same things.
What I meant to say was to Angel's original question - I don't think his losing sets at that point in the pickup is necessarily 100% attributed to him not DHVing or displaying enough value via hitting attraction switches (leader of men, protector of loved ones, etc.) What I would say is that may be part of it, but very likely it's something else altogether. Maybe he is kinoing wrong. Maybe he is coming across too strong or too weak. maybe his energy is off. it could be a myriad of things we just don't know until we see him.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:54 pm
Yep, I think you're right same thoughts, different words.
I think communication is a huge value enhancer.
1) People love to be around people than can articulate their thoughts in an intelligent manner.
2) When you're able to articulate your thoughts and feelings effectively through various mediums of communication then you're able to better show people what you have to offer, you're better at projecting your value. We all have value, some of us are better at getting the word out than others.
So, I think you're totally right with respect to the communication idea.
Right or wrong, but I think everything can be explained through fundamental economic theory. They don't it a SOCIAL SCIENCE for no reason.
I think communication is a huge value enhancer.
1) People love to be around people than can articulate their thoughts in an intelligent manner.
2) When you're able to articulate your thoughts and feelings effectively through various mediums of communication then you're able to better show people what you have to offer, you're better at projecting your value. We all have value, some of us are better at getting the word out than others.
So, I think you're totally right with respect to the communication idea.
Right or wrong, but I think everything can be explained through fundamental economic theory. They don't it a SOCIAL SCIENCE for no reason.
- Guest
by Guest » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:02 pm
True, but now I'm going to do the same thing to you as you did to me and tell you that I define communication in broader terms than you are.
Correctly identifying what's going on in your head and putting words to it is part of it.
However a huge part is also being able to listen and understand others. Yet another part is knowing when/how to be funny. Knowing how to be shallow and how to be deep. Yet another part of it is nonverbal skills. Yet another part is delivery such as energy projection. Calibration. Learning to be a normal, cool guy. Etc etc. :)
Correctly identifying what's going on in your head and putting words to it is part of it.
However a huge part is also being able to listen and understand others. Yet another part is knowing when/how to be funny. Knowing how to be shallow and how to be deep. Yet another part of it is nonverbal skills. Yet another part is delivery such as energy projection. Calibration. Learning to be a normal, cool guy. Etc etc. :)
- Guest
by Guest » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:49 am
How about talking about your passions?That what I do. Talking about them is exiciting to you and her(since you get exicited she will too) and the interaction will have more energy. Thing is is too balance conversation and physical contact. Leading conversation is an essential skill but being stuck in conversation land is not productive also.
- Guest
by Guest » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:17 pm
[quote1220127386=Bull Run]
[quote1218637497=Vector]Not to be a jerk, but just because you're having a conversation doesn't mean she's perceiving any value. Even if she's enjoying the interaction, that doesn't say much about your value in terms of the attraction switches. If she's not investing, either she hasn't perceived value, or her husband is standing right behind you.[/quote1218637497]
Exactly. A conversation doesn't mean she values you, I've had millions of conversations. Not everyone 'valued' me. Even if they enjoyed the conversation. There is no scarcity in a 'fun' conversation because we have them all the time, therefore a 'fun' conversation doesn't really build value.
Getting someone to invest in you sounds like you're trying to sell yourself, and while this is sort of true I think of it totally differently. Instead of selling myself, I want to them to want to buy me. Seems like the same thing but it's not. Selling implies that you're doing something to alter their world, you're convincing them, you're a salesman. Having them buy you implies that you're simply interacting with the world, living your life (you should naturally project value at this point) and they are attracted to you. The difference is powerful. As I watch some of the more experienced, successful PUAs and then compare them to guys that are struggling a little bit you can see who is trying to sell and who is simply being bought.
No one wants to be sold, but everyone loves to buy.
[/quote1220127386]
I see what you are talking about.
[quote1218637497=Vector]Not to be a jerk, but just because you're having a conversation doesn't mean she's perceiving any value. Even if she's enjoying the interaction, that doesn't say much about your value in terms of the attraction switches. If she's not investing, either she hasn't perceived value, or her husband is standing right behind you.[/quote1218637497]
Exactly. A conversation doesn't mean she values you, I've had millions of conversations. Not everyone 'valued' me. Even if they enjoyed the conversation. There is no scarcity in a 'fun' conversation because we have them all the time, therefore a 'fun' conversation doesn't really build value.
Getting someone to invest in you sounds like you're trying to sell yourself, and while this is sort of true I think of it totally differently. Instead of selling myself, I want to them to want to buy me. Seems like the same thing but it's not. Selling implies that you're doing something to alter their world, you're convincing them, you're a salesman. Having them buy you implies that you're simply interacting with the world, living your life (you should naturally project value at this point) and they are attracted to you. The difference is powerful. As I watch some of the more experienced, successful PUAs and then compare them to guys that are struggling a little bit you can see who is trying to sell and who is simply being bought.
No one wants to be sold, but everyone loves to buy.
[/quote1220127386]
I see what you are talking about.
- Guest
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