What's the difference between a player and a pickupartist?

[Scoundrel]

Well Westie, I can see that you have issues with ethics. Maybe you lie often. But, that doesn't mean the rest of us do. I try not to lie about anything. But, I never do anything to be ashmed of, so I have nothing to lie about.

I pity you. But, I hope you find the life you desire.

[BLue_PHoENiX]

I think the key answer to this discussion is in the title itself. Pick-up Artist vs. Player. First the Pick-up Artist, the key word is Artist, as an artist we hone the skills and abilities to controll frame and gain emmotional momentum through tactics and tools developed through the art. we consistantly refine the progression of emmotional momentum with intense amounts of "perfecting the art". A "Player" is an individual participating in a "game" to seduce multiple amounts of women in a set time frame. regardless to whether it be multiple women in a specified set or multiple women through out a life time. Anyone can slap paint on a canvis and consider it art. but an artist controlls the amount of paint delivered precisely with tactic and skill to reveal a beautiful master piece.

[BLue_PHoENiX]

Theres a major misunderstanding in this discussion. lying is immoral and un-ethical but in a frame it should be used congruently and in moderation. e.g. "your a gemini? thats too bad cuz i dont date gemini's their crazy, you know, 'the twins' are you skitzo?". I dont honestly believe that gemini's are skitzo and i certanly date gemini's just as much as any other zodiac, but in frame this allows the gemini female to qualify herself to me and give me reasons to show her attention while diverting conversation to another topic (transition). its all a part of the art work. with out lying to me could u honestly tell me that u've never used push pull or bait, reel, release? this is basic tactic in this industry and if u've never used it please inlighten me on your tactical, honest version of social intuition.

[Scoundrel]

I agree Blue Phoenx. There are differant levels of perjury. If I tell a woman that I drive an Austin Martin DB9, own a 3 story house and work on Wall Street that would be a greater lie than telling her I'm a slacker. The differance is the former is trying to impress while the latter is playful. There is a differance between telling a lie and telling a joke.

[BLue_PHoENiX]

I deffinately agree, and for someone to tell her all those things wouldnt be congruent with their character would lead to looking like a complete idiot in the end. imagine at the end of the night you walk strait passed the valet (because obviousley if u you had a aston martin it would most certainly be in the valet!) to the parking lot across the street so she could follow you to your house and your left saying "well i decided to drive my civic tonight because *****". moral to the story you'll only look like a dumb ass for attempting to go to that extreme. if in that case you had to lie that much, you dont need to practice the art. no offense to anyone who goes to that lenth, I dont need to humiliate you, nor does anyone else, you humiliate your self. plus it takes away from the challenge of the game. I have lied to alter my image, but now only to tone down my image like wear less designer clothing, add glasses, wear sneakers with a tuxedo, these things make the frame more challenging and fun. she'll find out eventually that i changed my image for the lesser and will feel even more impressed and qualified in the future.

[Scoundrel]

I've been thinking about this. I must admit that I structure things to give an impression. However, I allow a woman to draw her own conclusions. For example, I had been gaming a waitress in a coffee house off an on for a while. Mostly just banter, I could tell she wasn't really into me, but she enjoied the playful interactions we had. One afternoon she saw me with a smoking hot 18 year old (I'm in my late 40s). The next time I saw the waitress she asked point blank if I fucked the 18 year old. So, I asked her if she could keep a secret. I pulled her close to and whispered in her ear "so can I."

It didn't matter if I'd ficked the 18 year old or not. The waitress now thinks I did. I gave her the impression that I'd slept with the 18 YO without lieing to her about it.

I feel in this situation telling the waitress I'd slept with the 18 YO would have been bad wheather it were true or not. Moreover, telling her I hadn't would also have been bad. I kept it vague and I later nailed the waitress.

[Mack]

i think you are on the right track... i've found that i lie less and less to other people now that i'm being completely honest with myself. if you are truthful to yourself first, then you are likely to tell more truth to others. yes, there are "white" lies... the ones you tell in jokes... "no honey, you're not fat..." but serious lies hurt the ones around you and erode any trust... trust == more sex in the future... don't burn your bridges and you don't want to be on the outside looking in when you're labeled a liar by multiple women that all talk. esp. true in a limited hunting social area... such as where i live...