Stop Doing So Much (Chance) repost from mASF

[Westfall]

Sorry, fin & bart, I gotta concur with BR & PP on this one.,

WF

I concur with WF and PP on their concuring with me.

I concur with BR that excessive but slightly ironical posts in this thread are quite funny.

[MagicBalls]

I've always believed that trying ANYTHING is better than standing in a corner nursing your beer. This is why PUA works, because the AFC is told to try different things, and can hide behind the routines and step outside of himself and his insecurities for a bit.

But at 1:45 am in a club, girls are horny and drunk. And if you have gotten to the point where you can go up to a stranger, start a conversation without getting "blown out", and flirt, you have a better chance of getting laid than when you stood in the corner drinking your beer.

And then the whole thing of, "that's not me....", well, for many of us, we've been hiding our true colors for a long time, for whatever reason, and we've associated that cover with our identity. Experimenting with different styles and approaches allows us to work on those skills which bring out qualities that actually were there all along. Hopefully one day you will say, "hey you know, this new way of doing things is actually is me.... I just didn't know how to bring it out."

Let me put it another way. In High School, survival was about how well you fit in. After High School, your value is in what unique qualities and skills you posses that make you stand out among the crowds. Your flaws are often your greatest strengths, as they define your character and personality. So let them shine like a porcupine. It will be what women will remember you by after first meeting you.

We are often fed this image in the media through jewelry commercials, etc., that love is some happy dream by a fountain in France. But always keep this in mind: that hot girl across the room is someone's sister, someone's daughter, someone's cousin, someone's student, someone's co-worker. These are people who know her idiosyncrasies and are real with her. They've known her for a long time and aren't as impressed or moved as you were when you layed eyes on her.

Keep in mind how much time an effort she put to look the way she did at the Ghostbar on Saturday night. But to you, it looks effortless, like she just stepped out of a pumpkin carriage. It's not. She spend a lot of time picking out her outfit, doing her hair, cleaning her face, and putting on her make up. But underneath it all, she could still feel like the 12 year old dork we all were at one time. PUA helps you break through these illusions and understand that she's just a person with her own quirks and idiosyncrasies, just like you. And these will be some of the things that you will remember her by if you get to really know her.

[bart]

"Game" is nothing but a crutch, it's a game plan, an algorithm to follow. Negs, routines, DHV, etc, etc, are crutches.

BR, you are not alone. A lot of guys think that that those things are "game". Then they start to feel silly, and become frustrated and bitter. Then they post diatribes like the original quoted post, or they repost such diatribes to various forums. Unfortunately, the exchange of knowlege has been very stunted in the Dallas community after an early promising groundswell, partly because of clashes among some personalities that helped build infrastructure. Lately I get the feeling that things are changing for the better.

[dubya]

"Once you no longer believe you're a piece of shit, PU becomes easy."
-Maxx

Dammit, I just bit my tongue.

A lot of guys think that that those things are "game". Then they start to feel silly, and become frustrated and bitter. Then they post diatribes like the original quoted post, or they repost such diatribes to various forums.

A thousand thousand slimy things lived on
And so did I.

Um... I concur...

Whats fascinating to me is that none of this is really new to the human experience. PU just gives us a different way of looking at things then what we had before. Anyway...

[H_Raja]

I think of the Community as the vehicle that allows you to become a solid man and to truly like yourself.

Being good with women is what is going define you as a man?

[Bull Run]

I think of the Community as the vehicle that allows you to become a solid man and to truly like yourself.

Being good with women is what is going define you as a man?

No, this is simply ridiculous. I'm a little sad that you thought this. Re-read what I said. I used the word 'vehicle.' By that I mean that women are the medium, the means, the tools you use to sculpt yourself into the man that you really want to be, the man you believe you are but haven't shown the world yet. Here's my theory:

Men enter the Community becuase they feel something is missing. Whatever it is that is missing doesn't really matter, they just don't feel complete. Maybe it's because they suck with women and want to get better, maybe they just want hotter women, or maybe they want to learn to become more socially secure and attractive. Doesn't really matter. My thinking is that if you're here, it's because you want to be better in some way.

So, as an enthusiastic newbie you begin devouring materials at a super-human pace. Mystery, Style, David D., Ross Jennings, Juggler, etc. You read the theories, the techniques, the methods, the different schools of thought. The fact that these men, and countless others, have used these same methods to become good with women emboldens the newbie. So, they start sarging. They'll used canned stuff first because they don't quite understand how to craft their own materials. Initially, your success will be shocking (if you're doing it right). Shit, I remember thinking that I had to be dreaming...if I say this and do that then I'm more than likely going to close this girl. For a while you revelle in our success, but eventually you begin to feel contrived. You're nothing but an actor running canned material that isn't even yours, you've done nothing to build depth of character.

This is the point at which I believe you begin to internalize. You know this stuff works, you understand why, and how to create proprietary material unique to your life. You also learn that you have options with women! How empowering is this concept?!?! You now believe, wholeheartedly, that you are an attractive person (not just with women but also with men).

Within this framework of thinking, you begin to craft a new identity for yourself. Not one that is flexible, not one that changes based on those that you are interacting with...instead you build a rock solid identity in the image of the person you want to be. Others will take you or leave you (mostly the former because you will be projecting a positive, strong, attractive identity), either way you will always remain you. The principles and positive feedback of PU help you get to this point.

Being good with women is certainly a great side-effect of Game. But, that's not what's going to define you as a man. You will define yourself within the context of what you learned from the Community...i.e. you have options, there will always be another woman, you are a buyer instead of seller, people do find you attractive, etc.

[H_Raja]

From what I learned from my bootcamp instructor, seeking validation and approval from the game is a deadend. And even Strauss' book goes into this. To me you need to have validation from other parts of your life if you truly want to be a man.

[Westfall]

From what I learned from my bootcamp instructor, seeking validation and approval from the game is a deadend. And even Strauss' book goes into this. To me you need to have validation from other parts of your life if you truly want to be a man.

The only time you should ever need to seek validation is when you're parking.

WF

[Bull Run]

From what I learned from my bootcamp instructor, seeking validation and approval from the game is a deadend. And even Strauss' book goes into this. To me you need to have validation from other parts of your life if you truly want to be a man.

I agree, but what I'm saying is that the Community acts as the catalyst that allows you to gain validation from other parts of your life.

Again, it's my theory that everyone that enters the Community does so because they feel inept with women. Sure they may have had girl-friends or have gotten laid relatively regularly but they still never fully understood or felt comfortable with interacting with women. So, they seek out a Community such as this to help them understand how to do so. By gaining a little more validation from women, it emboldens you and allows you to begin changing other aspects of your life.

OR, you could be like me. You've accomplished a lot in all other aspects of your life but always wanted to be better with women. In this case, validation from women fills that final void...rounding you out to become the man you want to be.

Just because some 'guru' says something doesn't mean its the truth, frankly I think most 'gurus' are better salesmen and performers than PUAs. Spend some time with the 'real' guys in the Community and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Validation from women is a great place to start on the road to self improvement, it just can't be the place you end.